Seattle Cop Punches Girl In The Face

[TexasChris]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100619/ap_on_re_us/us_seattle_police_punch

SEATTLE – A Seattle teen shown on video shoving a police officer who then punched her in the face has apologized to the officer in a private meeting.

Seattle police say Officer Ian Walsh accepted the apology Friday.

Separately, the King County prosecutor charged the 17-year-old girl as a juvenile with third-degree assault, which is punishable by a maximum 30 days in detention.

The incident happened Monday as the teen was intervening in a friend's arrest for jaywalking. James Kelly of the Urban League of Seattle says he requested Friday's meeting between the teen and the officer at a community center to help calm the situation.

Police have said the department's civilian-led Office of Professional Accountability is investigating the 39-year-old officer's actions.

[Fast Eddie]

     
     TexasChris, I agree with you that cops are people-as fallible as anyone else, and they should be held responsible for their actions-to an even higher standard than the average citizen because of their training and their oath.  But in some situations you need to take your opinion of the person out of the equation and respect the badge and uniform and all that they represent, even if the person wearing them is acting improperly.  I absolutely agree with you that people should not stand by and watch someone get beaten and injured severely or killed just because the attackers wear uniforms, but in this case I don't think there was a gross abuse that would have warranted resistance or intervention.  The best thing to do is to let the arrest occur, especially with all the cameras around.  ANY use of force will be scrutinized to death, and this cop will be fighting for his job now...Police are given much of their authority with the idea that the courts can remedy wrongful actions. 

More than their training or their oath, they need to be held to a higher standard because you are required by law to submit to them.  If I am required by law  to be submissive, and if defending myself is considered resisting arrest, they better not abuse that power.  There needs to be trust that if you obey, you will be treated fairly...if not, then the abusers deserve to lose more than their jobs.  I'm speaking here of cops who knowingly abuse that public trust.  Anyone can make a mistake in the heat of the moment, and will need to answer for it, hopefully without too much Monday morning quarterbacking, but calculated abuse from behind a badge should not be tolerated.

Having said that, and reading all the thoughtful comments here, this could have gone better, and it could have gone very much worse.  If I were the cop, I would have let the jaywalking go, mostly because ticketing people for these type of petty violations is bad for the public perception of cops, and they are usually victimless crimes (note I said usually...don't give me the ahaa of a case where jaywalking caused a 15 car pile up).  Case in point...photo radar...tickets people going 11mph over the limit, even if perfectly safe and consistant with the flow of traffic (do I sound overly sensitive here?) while the weaving drunk going the speed limit escapes scrutiny.  Generates lots of money for the city...and gobs of bad will for the police.  

Having started down the path he did, things started to escalate and the force continuum came into play. Less force and he could be perceived as weak and emboldened the crowd if they were predisposed. More force, and this could have turned into a shooting.  Tough call...so why get yourself into this kind of situation over the most trivial of all offenses?

[pazzo]

Cid and others...

I understand what you guys are saying.

The ONLY part I disagree with in the whole situation is that he PUNCHED her in the face. I am totally cool with him tackling her or throwing her in a headlock, but to attack her face with his fist in a fit of anger is absolutely unacceptable.

Being a Law Enforcement Officer is so much more than just punishing everybody for doing small things (seriously, this offence was very small). It about public relations, to serve and protect (or protect and to serve) and being an overall professional. Punching a 17 yr old female in the face is not a level of professionalism. Being a police officer is not about bullying people just because you have a badge/gun. Take that away and they're just normal everyday common people.

[Cid1911]

So it's the symbolism of a punch that bothers you? What if he had tackled her and she had cracked her skull open on the sidewalk? I think if he truly were in a fit of anger, he would have punched more than once. I think he punched just once, brought the situation mostly back under control, and went back to control techniques.

I don't see this a bullying situation. I doubt he wanted to arrest anyone when he first made contact with the two jaywalkers, let alone punch anyone in the face.

[pazzo]

True to the fact that he most likely would have lost control and punched more than once. I don't really know what to say about the tackling/head smashing thing. That at least would be a genuine accident given his intent to take the perpetrator down in a 'less lethal' manner.

It seems that my conservative approach comes from living in a conservative country!? 

[jawara da' X]

Cid and others...

I understand what you guys are saying.

The ONLY part I disagree with in the whole situation is that he PUNCHED her in the face. I am totally cool with him tackling her or throwing her in a headlock, but to attack her face with his fist in a fit of anger is absolutely unacceptable.

Being a Law Enforcement Officer is so much more than just punishing everybody for doing small things (seriously, this offence was very small). It about public relations, to serve and protect (or protect and to serve) and being an overall professional. Punching a 17 yr old female in the face is not a level of professionalism. Being a police officer is not about bullying people just because you have a badge/gun. Take that away and they're just normal everyday common people.

Like I said before, she got off easy by getting punched in the face. Pepper Spray SUCKS, it sucks waaaay worse than getting punched in the face. For safety he (the cop) should have sprayed the whole crowd. Also in defense of the cop he followed the ROE perfectly. He gave verbal orders than didnt work, he went into hand to hand, and next he should have sprayed or tasered people. No matter how small the offense is, when a cop tells you to do something lawful and you are in the wrong, you do it. No questions asked. They give you plenty of time to call the ACLU, Al Sharpton, and Jesse Jackson when you get to jail.

[pazzo]

jawara,
I'm not disagreeing that even a 'small offence' should be treated with seriousness. All these petty offences escalate and should be treated like they will. What I am saying is that a push does not require getting your teeth knocked in.

[Fast Eddie]

There is a lot more "pazzo-ness" here, than in the Great White North.

[pazzo]

haha.
That is only because the US has 9x the population Canada has

Canada = 34,144,000    (June 19, 2010)
USA     = 309,535,000  (June 19, 2010)

USA > Canada 

[Soap]

FACT: THE ARREST OCCURRED DUE TO A JAYWALKING VIOLATION ON AN EXTREMELY BUSY STRETCH OF ROAD. I'M NOT TALKING OUTOF MY FOURTH POINT OF CONTACT HERE, I'M STATIONED IN WA AND HAVE DRIVEN THAT ROAD QUITE A FEW TIMES.

FACT: THE ARREST OCCURRED WITHIN 15 FEET OF A PEDESTRIAN OVERPASS DESIGNED TO ELIMINATE JAYWALKING. THE GIRLS CHOSE TO WILLFULLY VIOLATE THE LAW RISKING INJURY TO THEMSELVES AND OTHERS.


FACT: THE GIRL CLEARLY MAKES SOME SORT OF FOLLOW UP ATTACK TO THE SHOVE WHICH THE OFFICER AVOIDS BEFORE STRIKING HER. CALL IT A "WEAK ASS JAB" ALL YOU LIKE. SHE WAS STRONG ENOUGH TO SHOVE HIM BACK TWO STEPS, SHE'S NOT A SMALL GIRL. I'LL BET EVEN MONEY IN VEGAS THAT IF IT'D CONNECTED THE OFFICER WOULD PROBABLY CONTEST LABELING IT AS WEAK ASS.

FACT: NO ONE HERE KNOWS WHAT SEATTLE PD'S UOFC POLICY IS. SO SCREAMING THAT HE WAS OUT OF LINE MAYBE INCORRECT.

Now, for those of you who keep harping that this never should've even escalated the way it did you're absolutely right. Those girls should have just used the damn pedestrian bridge like everyone else instead of risking bodily harm to themselves and causing trouble for others. Is WA flat ass broke? Hell yes they are (that's what you get when you spend the last of your money studying the nesting habits of a bird). Are the LE angencies of the state being used to collect revenues in a desperate attempt to make up the difference? Most certainly, I'm fairly certain we at JBLM have our own troop of the WASP  tasked specifically with issuing as many citations to us as possible. However I don't think that's the case in this particular situation.

[SS.Pic]

What I am saying is that a push does not require getting your teeth knocked in.

While you seem to be commenting on a situation that played out before you eyes on film, the Officer has to react immediately to all the potential things that could happen.
    Once the offending girl had her nose flattened and finally complied like she should have in the first place. The officer was able to reassess the situation and proceed with out further escalation. He did not continue with a beat down like the crowd would have you believe.

[jawara da' X]

jawara,
I'm not disagreeing that even a 'small offence' should be treated with seriousness. All these petty offences escalate and should be treated like they will. What I am saying is that a push does not require getting your teeth knocked in.

I don't think he knocked the girl's teeth in. How would you have handled it? Keep in mind he was a white cop in a black neighborhood. He would have been justified in using his OC spray instead of punching her in the face. That's what guys like you would have preferred he do right? Pepper spray is nicer that hitting right? Wrong. Go to your local police station and ask if you can get in on the next OC cert that they do. After you get sprayed I guarantee that you would rather take a fist to the nose.

[jrsweb]

What a lot of people not in the "ethnic" groups are not getting is this new combative "in your face" attitude that is becoming more prevalent. How do I know this? Well, I happen to be in one of those ethnic groups and I hear them constantly saying how "we are now in control" - so apparently that gives us the right to go mess with someone or steal or assault the police or whatever. Because our lord Obama will get us out of it...... and he will pay our mortgage and give us new cars. 

This is one of the reason why I end up in so many confrontations with these lemmings everywhere I go. They assume that because I look like them and can speak their language that I have a disrespect for this country. That's when I tell them they need to go back to where they came from or worse.... and they need to get a job so I don't have to support their sorry ass.

I'm surprised you guys have not really mentioned how many people were around them filming the whole thing in their cell phones - less then 10 feet from them. I'm sure they saw that and it only made them think they could go after the cop and cause an incident so they got a pay day. On the other hand, the police officer I'm sure seeing this did not use overwhelming force initially to stop it before it escalated.... and he let it get out of control. Then it only went to hell after that.
 

[pazzo]

How would you have handled it?

Not by lashing out with a fist to the face. I would have either grabbed her arm and thrown her into an arm bar or thrown her into a choke until she stopped resisting. Much more civil than punching in the face. I would resort to punching if she took it to the next step...

[SS.Pic]

How would you have handled it?

 I would have either grabbed her arm and thrown her into an arm bar or thrown her into a choke until she stopped resisting.

Well back in the day I would have opted for the SUPLEX move. Unfortunately with the thongs they wear these days, well there just not durable enough for that.   

[jawara da' X]

How would you have handled it?

Not by lashing out with a fist to the face. I would have either grabbed her arm and thrown her into an arm bar or thrown her into a choke until she stopped resisting. Much more civil than punching in the face. I would resort to punching if she took it to the next step...

So what you are saying is that you would grapple with two opponents at one time. Dude, you kill me. If you rewatch the video you will see that the cop was already in a tussle with one girl already and you say you would add another into it? Seriously? Before you said that did you take into consideration that one of them could grab your weapon and shoot you with it?
I'm gonna show this video man I work with.  He was a soldier for 25 years before he spent about 10 years in law enforcement. I'd like to hear his take on it.

[BuddyChryst]

Don't forget that a punch to the face is more likely to be legal than a choke hold
 
What I see in the video is real bad. I see people that should have respect for authority being so brazen as to talk back to an officer, much less place your hands on one?  Much less try to wrestle and throw a punch. 

I just don't understand when that became acceptable. Even if you don't think it's justified; you'll get your day in court.

[jawara da' X]

What a lot of people not in the "ethnic" groups are not getting is this new combative "in your face" attitude that is becoming more prevalent. How do I know this? Well, I happen to be in one of those ethnic groups and I hear them constantly saying how "we are now in control" - so apparently that gives us the right to go mess with someone or steal or assault the police or whatever. Because our lord Obama will get us out of it...... and he will pay our mortgage and give us new cars. 

This is one of the reason why I end up in so many confrontations with these lemmings everywhere I go. They assume that because I look like them and can speak their language that I have a disrespect for this country. That's when I tell them they need to go back to where they came from or worse.... and they need to get a job so I don't have to support their sorry ass.

I'm surprised you guys have not really mentioned how many people were around them filming the whole thing in their cell phones - less then 10 feet from them. I'm sure they saw that and it only made them think they could go after the cop and cause an incident so they got a pay day. On the other hand, the police officer I'm sure seeing this did not use overwhelming force initially to stop it before it escalated.... and he let it get out of control. Then it only went to hell after that.
 

I'm still waiting for my free NightForce scope that white people are gonna get for me...........

[jrsweb]

I just don't understand when that became acceptable. Even if you don't think it's justified; you'll get your day in court.

When you have people filming this 5 feet away from you, you bet they are going to go after the cop trying to provoke something. The cop would have been fried on the spot if he would have put anyone in a choke hold.... let alone a headlock. A headlock would have fueled the racist thing even more.

And for those of you that have been in a scuffle, when things happen and you do something, sometimes what you intended does not happen.... like you hit the person next to the one you tried to hit or you knocked down someone by mistake. It's easy to armchair quarterback but this cop was screwed no matter what he did he was going to be on the news. His mistake was stopping someone of the wrong group with tons of people surrounding filming it.

If he would have stuck to the wealth re-distribution program and only ticket white evil rich people, then this would not have happened to him.

[pazzo]

I see people that should have respect for authority being so brazen as to talk back to an officer, much less place your hands on one?

Reminds me of the back when I was younger, a guy I knew took out two officers with some nice punches to the head (he was a pro boxer). He got off in court because they couldn't prove that the officers showed "valid" ID before grabbing him. Big mistake on their part.

[Soap]

Anbody else here starting think that pazzo is Lionheart?

[TexasChris]

What I see in the video is real bad. I see people that should have respect for authority being so brazen as to talk back to an officer, much less place your hands on one? 

No one back talks an officer?  *sigh*.....oh yeah, i forgot....or he takes your allowance.....

You sound like a nanny. 

Although with so many of us on the government payroll.....and so many living off the government....




I'd be real suspicious of anyone who demanded respect because of the clothes they wear, or a title they've been given.

No one deserves unconditional respect or obedience.  No one is above scrutiny.

Not the president, not the church, not the NRA, not the government and certainly not cops either. No one.



It's blind respect that has got this nation where it's at.  So many people trusted the government.  Hell, the jews trusted the germans.




What I don't get is if I said "don't trust the president" most of you would get it, and whole heartedly agree.

But someone says "don't trust a cop"....all the sudden the feeling is different.


Now it's....oh no! Respect the Badge, Respect the Uniform....and the general gnashing of teeth taking place here.



interesting how a mild form of brainwashing is taken place here.  The symbol's are infallible, the badge is never wrong, the badge never lies, the badge will never die, the badge is incorruptible.

You've been duped into respecting the wrong thing; If you give respect based on uniform, titles, or badges....you've just been shammed.  If you give respect to anything other than the man behind it.....you've been had. When respect is at question, the clothing, badges, medals or titles have nothing to do with it, and never did.  It was the man who wore it.  It was the man in the uniform, the man behind the badge.  The man whose chest bore that medal.  If anyone tells you otherwise, they're selling you something.

But men are fallible, men tell lies and men are corruptible.  Doesn't sound so good if you just say "obey the man"....does it? No..that slogan would never be popular.

Or how about "who would dare to talk back to a man?"  Hell...that won't work either....I can think of lots of people that would do that.

But that is what you're saying.  A badge doesn't make a man somehow greater than the fancy thumbed, hairless ape he was when he got out of the shower.  Same goes for all of us.  If you're irritated that people don't respect you because of the clothes you wear or a piece of metal on your chest, then you must have come face to face with the realization that man underneath aint gonna get it, so it must infuriate you when a symbol doesn't do the trick.  Bein' a cop or SF or the vaticans royal guard has yet to be a guarantee on character. 

If you think people do respect you because of those things, don't let it blow your head up too much, because that's all they respect.  Something you wear or do.  Not you. 


If someone gives you respect because you're an honest man, a good father, good mother, a person of integrity or possess strength of will, well....I suppose those are about as good a compliment as a man or woman can hope for. 


 




----

These are my thoughts on the attitudes expressed, my feelings are not situation specific. 

[Soap]

http://www.officer.com/web/online/Top-News-Stories/Police-Guild-Defends-Seattle-Officers-Actions/1$52937

a punch to the face is allowed by Seattle PD Use of Force policy. Here ends the discussion.

[SDDuc996]

Respect must be earned.

I will say that I will give a cop the benefit of the doubt, but when he crosses the line or abuses his power then that respect is lost. He probably ruins it for the rest of his dept as well though they may not deserve it.

Face it, it's the way of the world.

[Soap]

Yeah, but he in no way crossed the line or abused his power. That's the bottom line here.