ID Card for Workers at Center of Immigration Plan

[Jbpark55]

More big government on the way.    It maybe about immigration, now. BUT, where could this go? This was on the Fox News site but it came from the Wall Street Journal. And they have the full story.

Under the potentially controversial plan still taking shape in the Senate, all legal U.S. workers, including citizens and immigrants, would be issued an ID card with embedded information, such as fingerprints, to tie the card to the worker.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/03/08/id-card-workers-center-immigration-plan/

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703954904575110124037066854.html

[Underground]

This isn't about immigration, they're not enforcing the law now when they know people are illegal.  I don't know what the immigration folks that don't work on the border are doing, but it does not appear to be their job.  When you've got 30 people working somewhere with the same SS#, immigration knows, and they deliberately won't do anything about it... no it's not about immigration.

Once they issue something like that though, they can start to tie all sorts of things to it.

[Jbpark55]

It's becoming more like 1984 each and every day.    I mean come on "a national biometric identification card all American workers would eventually be required to obtain."
Does this crap sound American to anybody. And look who is in on it "Sens. Chuck Schumer (D., N.Y.) and Lindsey Graham (R., S.C.)." Bipartisanship at it's finest.

 

[TomAiello]

Bipartisanship at it's finest.

It's "moderate."  It's "centrist."  It's "bipartisan."

Now go back to sleep and don't worry you're pretty little head about it.

[paladius]

I don;t mind the idea of a national ID card with high security, anti-forgery features.    It would be like a unified national license or a smaller passport.  Provided, of course, that electronic personal data is kept off it.   

WHAT I DO MIND, and really scares the piss out of me, is that these new ID cards will be impregnated with electronic data, which means that what ever the computer that the asshole in charge says you are, you will be.    If these ID cards become the standard for credit card purchases, air travel, drivers license, medical payments, gun ownership, profession, memberships, etc, then that would put all your eggs in one government carried basket.   

The real issue is that if DHS, for example decides that members of the Scottsdale Gun Club pose a threat, then some agent typi-types that in to the mother computer, then all those members of the gun club can no longer buy food at the grocery store, get gas for their car, get medical attention, board an airplane, etc.   If Rahm wants to keep republicans out of a public rally or town hall meeting, all they have to do is typi-type "no republicans" and those people could be denied at the door, when you scan your ID card.   In addition computers DO make mistakes (often caused by human error).   If you happen to be getting on airplane to go to your own wedding in another state and that computer error happens and the computer says you can not fly, then you will in NO WAY be getting married.   It will take long long time to figure it out and straighten things out.   Don't think it could happen?   Look at all the movie actors and even senators who have found themselves on the no-fly list.   Mistake, and even they get fucked over.    Now, I'm not a movie actor or a senator, so what kind of treatment could I expect in that situation?   Now, as for staging terror events, you could also typi-type that Mahamad Allah Allah Akbar is really called William Colton and that he IS allowed on that plane.    Currently, if you want to get a patsy bomber on a plane to force the sale of body scanners, you have to risk exposure with an actual agent at the gate.   With the new ID card, it could be done from HQ.

Electronic data is the real issue with the ID cards.   

[XCRFan]

Everything we are seeing right now, is the result of elections based 100% on nothing more than emotion and happy thoughts.  When people stop voting with their feelings and start voting with their head, we will finally see real change and real hope.

[MickeyC]

How is this different from a driving license or a green card? Feds and CIS can call up those records at will, so I don't see why they need somethnig new when they already have the things they need. It would be easy to add work permit data to the DL.

Unless you are a permanent resident your DL now says TEMPORARY on it and it can only be issued for the duration of the visa. If you come in on a 90 day waiver, then you can only get a DL for 90 days. No visa no DL. The Florida DL, for example, has pictures on it and could easily hold a fingerprint.

[paladius]

the difference between the fed ID and license, is that in order for a person to look up your "record" and personal information with a license they need the license in hand.    The Fed ID will have RF chip in it and will basically work like a GPS tracking device as long the person carrying it is within cell phone range.    The RF chips work by absorbing RF radiation from cell towers or other source, then convert the RF energy into a transmission wave and bounce back the data encrypted on the RF chipset.   This bounced wave is then read by proprietary software on a laptop computer than has a wireless hardware setup to read the signals.   

Carrying a Federal ID, you will be marked like Arnold in Total Recall.

At first it will be used legally and for good purposes, then it will used for evil, then it will be used for capitalism.   Imagine walking into a store a the mall and then walking out without buying anything.    Well, the store will know who you are, your email, and address.   Expect a coupon shortly.

[MickeyC]

Not necessarily true. It all depends on the type of TAG used and the detection equipment as well as the TAG's transmit capabilities. Most card level TAGs only work from a few meters. But I agree it's a little concerning.

[XCRFan]

I do have quite a bit of RFID experience here.  RFID tags come in two types: Active and Passive.  Passive are the kinds we think of when we hear about a pet RFID chip.  RFID chips are very similar to those tags on clothing or other items that set the alarms off at the store if you get too close to the detectors. 

Passive RFID tags get power by the reader. When radio waves from the reader are encountered by a passive rfid tag, the coiled antenna within the tag forms a magnetic field. The tag draws power from it, energizing the circuits in the tag. The tag then sends the information encoded in the tag's memory.

An RFID tag is an active tag when it is equipped with a battery that can be used as a partial or complete source of power for the tag's circuitry and antenna.

The problems and disadvantages of an active RFID tag are:
The tag cannot function without battery power, which limits the lifetime of the tag.
The tag is typically more expensive, often costing $20 or more each
The tag is physically larger, which may limit applications.

Differences between Active and Passive Tags:

PASSIVE TAG:



World' Smallest ACTIVE TAG (1" x .9" x .28" / 26 x 23 x 7.3mm:


World's smallest battery.  Which an active Tag would require:

[paladius]

I got news for everyone.   If you see a picture of a passive tag that is 1/8" wide then reduce it by power of 10.   Sandia National Labs has been making nano ID tags for years now.    Small enough to be suspended in fluid.   Yes, it's true. 

The other news I have is that although many passive tags can only be read with readers that are a few meters away... you can get around that be A) increasing reader power field (AKA up the wattage of celltowers eveywhere to create an RF space ether), or B) use common electronic devices as mobile readers (ipHone, Droid, car NAV, etc).

Now the bigger the antenna attached to tag the less power (or further away from power source) you can be and still read data.   An antenna the size of a drivers license would work anwhere you have cell phone service.

Scary huh?

[MickeyC]

Yes, but just like cell phones they are easy to jam, and ultimately easy to copy. Also I suspect national ID cards would be even less popular than gun control.

[TomAiello]

Also I suspect national ID cards would be even less popular than gun control.

Here is what the Idaho state legislature had to say about it the last time around.  They weren't fans.

[Soap]

WV has already stated that we will not comply with any National ID programs. Mountaineers are always free.

[tk]

As has been pointed out elsewhere,  we have the tools to control illegal immigration right now, we just don't care to use them.
Our politicians are too afraid to alienate the various Hispanic groups that support illegal immigration, and the big business interest that profit from it.

I suspect that a lot of politicians see this as a "painless" way of addressing that situation -- they'll simply infringe on the privacy of every legtimate American citizen. And increase the federal bureaucracy along with it.

Our government already has decided it can monitor our electronic messaging, phone calls, and even our reading habits, all of which clearly violates  existing protections against unreasonable search and seizure. This would be one more giant step toward the police state many favor.

tk 

[Loonster]

Michigan has also stated that they wouldn't comply with the REAL ID act (signing something similar to Idaho), but then they went and made 'Enhanced Id'. That allows you to cross into Canada without a passport (shouldn't need one anyway).  The 'Enhanced Id complies essentially with everything the REAL ID act did and they added a RFID in for good measure. The only thing I think doesn't comply is a lack of national database.  The only thing good, is it's an 'opt-in' and it's not being forced on us (yet).