Help please!

[slightly_crazy]

I have been reloading pistol cartridges for some time now and just started reloading 6.8 rifle cartridges.  Well, my first attempt wasn't so successful.  I trimmed the cases as prescribed, primed and charged them at the starting load per my Lee reloading handbook.  With the OAL under the maximum shown, I went to the range with my XCR and high hopes.  The first two or three fired however, when I attempted to fire my next round, it just went "click".  I ejected it and tried the next and the next with the same results.  I inspected the primers and found that they had no mark or a very light strike mark on them.  My first thought was that I had broken a firing pin.  Just to see, I inserted a mag of hornady factory loads and every one went bang.  So, now I'm thinking that my reloads are f***ed up somehow and I can only think it has something to do with the OAL.  My load data shows a min OAL of 2.260 inches and the max OAL of the same 2.260.  Something is wrong here because when I measure the Hornady factory cartridges, they are 2.243 inches.  Any ideas of what I might be missing here?  Also, if anybody can point me to some other load data for 6.8 it would be appreciated. I have searched and haven't found much that I know is trustworthy.

Thanks!

[DSM]

I think you'll need to strip down your bolt and make sure you don't have a busted firing pin or maybe some gunk in there, just to be certain.  It's just to be sure.  But, what may have happened is you didn't have the sizing die adjusted just so and your loads have too much headspace and the bolt didn't go into battery.  If your OAL is too long for your chamber then you'll see marks where the bullet would've jammed into the throat/rifling.

I don't know of case gauges for 6.8 but Hornady has those lock and load gauges for your calipers that will work for you.

[ny32182]

Sounds to me like you're not getting enough sizing on the case and failing to go into battery (that would be not enough headspace, btw).  This could be the result of the shoulder not getting bumped back enough or the base not getting sized down enough.  What you really need is a "max cartridge gage" for 6.8, but I don't immediately see one for sale at Midway anyway.  In the mean time, make sure the case is getting pushed all the way up into the sizing die.  With the ram all the way up and a case in the die, if you can see *any* light whatsoever between the shell holder and the bottom of the die, that is potentially enough of a problem to cause the issue you are apparently having.

[MickeyC]

Take a factory round and pull trhe bullet. Then compare case length with your loads. Also check headspace on your 6.8. Also try CCI primers which are fairly soft in case it's a firing pin issue. One thing you can do is prime some brass and see it will fire at home. When you chamber your brass, ensure the bolt is fully locked. If your loads are too long the bolt may not be fully in battery and the round not seated aginst the bolt.

[slightly_crazy]

Thanks all for your quick replies.  I will try your suggestions and report back after I've found the issue.  DSM, I checked the bullets on the handloads that I had tried and found that they all had vertical scratches around them in an even pattern.  Therefore, I am thinking that you, Mickey and ny are right and that the cartridge isn't going fully into battery.  I had checked the case length with my calipers against the max trim length in the data and they checked ok.  This may be a stupid question, but when I compare the Hornady V-Max bullets from the factory loads that I have and the speer jhp that I used to reload, the shapes seem to be much different.  Could that be a cause of the problem?  I do have some V-Max bullets and I will try to load a few of those to see if my results are different as well.  Mickey, thanks for your suggestions about priming some brass only.  I will use that method to check to see if the bolt is locking.

[dont_tread_on_me]

This may be a stupid question, but when I compare the Hornady V-Max bullets from the factory loads that I have and the speer jhp that I used to reload, the shapes seem to be much different.  Could that be a cause of the problem?

  Set them side by side and look where the shoulder is on both,I'm guessing the factory loads shoulder are shorter (closer to the case head) on the factory loads.

[ny32182]

I'm not sure based on your responses so far (or maybe I am just dense) but, for starters at least, you should be loading to the OAL indicated for your specific bullet.  2.26 or thereabout (a mag length limitation) is the maximum for any cartridge that you want to fit in the mag (assuming here that 6.8 mags are the same dimension as 5.56), but not all bullets are going to be recommended to be loaded that long.  You need the length recommended for your bullet.  This is a lot more important with rifles than pistols.

"Vertical scratches" on the bullet could be anything at this point, but if you are running the bullets into the lands, you do NOT want to pull the trigger on one of those.  If you have a bullet with a short ogive and are loading it to max mag length, I believe it is possible you could be doing this.  Mickey's brass-only test should give a quick indicator of whether it is a case dimensional problem or something else.  You will essentially be doing the same thing here as you would be with a case max gage if you had one.

[DSM]

This may be a stupid question, but when I compare the Hornady V-Max bullets from the factory loads that I have and the speer jhp that I used to reload, the shapes seem to be much different.  Could that be a cause of the problem? 

The bullets have a different ogive no doubt.  Hornady uses their proprietary secant ogive that is more pointed. It's possible, though I doubt it given that others have loaded Speer bullets in 6.8 before, that their bullet profile is more front heavy and is excessively screwing around with the min/max OAL measurement.  For accuracy-centric shooters they measure such things with collimators to ensure bullet jump into the rifling is consistent.

It won't be as accurate in terms of gauging, but why not pull the barrel and drop a factory round in the chamber and measure with your calipers the amount of exposed brass?  Compare with your loads and see if there is any difference.  Do several to get an average going.  I mean if the XCR barrel comes off so easy why not take advantage of it?

[ny32182]

I just want to add... hopefully you grasp the gravity of this situation.  You don't want to light off a cartridge that is not all the way in battery and/or has a bullet pressed into the rifling.  It could mean the end of your rifle.

[MickeyC]

Get a case length gague and check your loads. If the shoulder is too far forward you would have a battery issue, if too far back a pressure problem. Check both the COL with the bullet seated, bullet shape doesn't really matter, and check the length of the case itself. Too long and it won't be in battery.

These are the mesurements that matter. Use a factory round as a guide and get a case gauge from dillon of Lee as a starting guide. that will tell you if any of these measurements is out of spec. size a case and slip it into the tool.http://www.lewilson.com/casegage.html

Case diameter
Case length (Case only)
Cartridge length (Case and bullet)

[DSM]

There we go, last time I looked there wasn't a gauge for 6.8.  We need to get that little piece of info tacked up.

[tk]

Other folks have said this in other words, but just in case it's not clear: there is more to sizing the case than OAL. The position of the shoulder is critical. A few thousands off, and your case could either stick out of the chamber so far that it fails to go into proper battery, or seat so deeply in the chamber that the firing pin cannot full reach the primer.

tk

[MickeyC]

...and that is what the gauge will help confirm.

slightly_crazy , any joy yet?

[slightly_crazy]

Well, as usual it ended up being user error during the resizing.  As you suggested, Mickey, I resized a couple of empty cases, primed them and then shot them without powder or bullets....worked fine.  I then went through my batch of rounds that I had taken to the range and started cycling them manually...I quickly realized that about half of the batch of 100 rounds wouldn't fully chamber.  The ones that did chamber wouldn't eject without using the pogo method.  So my next step was to pull the bullets on a few, dump the powder and try it again..still wouldn't chamber.  Resized them carefully this time and tested them out.  They would now chamber.  I reloaded them and they chambered and ejected fine when cycling manually.

I haven't been out to the range yet, but it seems clear that when i first resized my cases, either I didn't have my die adjusted correctly or I wasn't fully pressing the lever on my single stage press.  I'm guessing that the shoulder wasn't resized and resulted in my problems.  I have now learned my lesson to: A) Take my time resizing and B) Cycle a few rounds manually to test before continuing ---DUH! 

Anyway, thanks for all the replies guys! I hope to run them through the XCR by this weekend and I will report back.

By the way, I used my calipers to check the OAL and the case trim length and all is good.

[MickeyC]

Always do a full stroke on the resizing. It's easy to not pull the handle down fully and ending up with problems.

[gunner69]

MickeyC is right about full stroking your resizing step,  but also be sure to do the same thing when doing your powder charge step.  Do each step exactly as the others, consisticancy is necessary to obtain rounds that will shoot to the same point of aim.   Some folks weight each charge, case and bullet to obtain the best.  Any variation........ 

[djd12]

The previous suggestions about sizing and such are great but there is another possibility to check.  It may be that you have your bullet seating die set too low.  Assuming that your Lee dies have a built-in cripping ring (I think almost all rifle dies do). 

Here is the short story with crimping.  You need a slight crimp to hold the bullet in place during heavy recoil.  Works great if you have trimmed your cases to the right length, AND you are using a bullet that has a crimping cannelure (little indented ring around the bullet).  There are two types of common crimps, roll and taper.  You require a cannelure for a roll crimp, you require a taper crimp for bullets with no cannelure.  (yes, you can roll crimp soft cast bullets but I'm trying to keep this simple)

If you don't have cannelured bullets, or if you set the seating die way too low, you can bulge out the case just below the shoulder.  Often its so slight that you can't see it, but you can probably feel it.  This would keep the round from fully cambering and thus not be in full battery (as discussed above by others).  Small rifle cases are prone to be sensitive to this, and its very hard to diagnose because its not something you notice (223 is especially prone to this problem).

Try adjusting your seating die this way: (bullets with no crimping cannelure) Put a sized empty case in your press.  With no die in place, run it up all the way.  Before screwing in the seater die, run the bullet seater plug up all the way, now screw in your seater die until you feel the case mouth hit the crimping ring, then back it off one half turn.  This will put a taper crimp on your final loaded round, but not a roll crimp.  (Next, with cannelure:)  With a cannelure you do what was described above but instead of backing off the die, you screw downward a half turn.  Then try one loaded round, and adjust so the case ends in about the middle of the cannelure.  There are other points I would like to go over but I'm afraid I'm getting over-complicated. 

You might want to buy a couple of reloading manuals before you do anything else.  Read and understand what they say (this was not intended as a slam).  I suggests the latest versions of Hornady and Speer as they both have loads for the 6.8 (most manuals don't).  They are very interesting books to read.

One really final point and then I'll shut up:  If you find that you can feel the little bulge just below the shoulder of your loaded rounds, do not attempt to fix them by full length sizing of loaded ammunition.  If you do you will find out what its like to see a hand grenade go off 12 inches from your face.  You would have to pull the bullets and start over.

I hope this is of some use.