Cartmann’s complete .308 Reloading Step by Step (pictures included)

[EricCartmann]

WARNING!!! Reloading is dangerous!  Triple check reference all data points using difference sources and triple check all measurements.  PROCEED WITH CAUTION!!!


Cartmann’s complete .308 Reloading Step by Step (pictures included)


Here we start with some Lake City .308 Military brass cases that Cartmann got from the FALfiles.  This brass was dirty but it cleaned up real nice.  Prepping this brass was very tough and not as easy as 556 NATO brass.  Most .308 Military brass cases were shot from machine guns such as a M60 or M240B, these guns tend to have excessive headspace (sometimes overly excessive), and brass will balloon up bigger than normal making sizing very difficult.  Also the primers on these cases are crimped on super tight and difficult to knockout.  Sizing and decapping in one motion is very difficult so it is done in separate steps.


8 steps in the Cartmann case prep plan when working with Military 762 NATO Brass

Case Prep #1
Tumbling - Off she goes into the tumbler.  For the first tumble, Cartmann only tumbles for half hour with a cap full of NuFinish Car wax and 2 sheets of used dryer sheets (more on tumbling later).  It does not get super shiny after half hour, but is clean enough to go through the sizer die.



Case Prep #2
Decapping – is another name for removing old primer. Reason Cartmann does not decap and size in one motion is because this brass is too tough to size and decap in one motion. The Lee Decapping die is probably one of the best $10 Cartmann ever spent.


Lake City 05 Military Brass with NATO cross.


Decapping tube almost filled with old primers. 



Case Prep #3
Sizing – Stuck cases in dies are common with .308 Military Brass if you do not take the time to lube every case.  Here I dab front, back, and top with Mobil 1. RCBS X-die and Hornandy New Dimension dies both dented the brass because of excess lube.  The regular RCBS full sizer die claims it does not dent brass, but even it dents brass if you use excessive lube.  Only die I found that did not dent the brass was the $10 Lee Full Sizer Die, it has a very generous hole on top to release the excess lube.


.308 measurements


Dillon Case gauges to make sure your re-sized brass is within spec (.308 and .223).



Case Prep #4
Swaging is another name for Primer Pocket Crimp Removal.  Military primers are crimp in, to remove this crimp I use the RCBS swaging die. This die works pretty good but it is much slower than a Dillon Super Swager. 


Here is a Dillon Super Swager.
There is nothing I can say about the Super Swager that has not already been said.  I hate buying a new tool when the old tool already does the job (RCBS Swager).  However, after 5 months staring at 4000 Military Cases, I figured it is time I get the Dillon.  I had to tell myself since I save countless hours with Dillon over the RCBS, that the money was justified.  This thing is easy to use and adjust, best of all it is super duper fast. 



Case Prep #5
Remove lube – Some people like to throw cases back in the tumbler to remove excess lube, but not Cartmann.  Cartmann does not believe in shortening the Walnut Media life by exposing it to lube.  Instead Cartmann throws the cases in hot water with Car Wash soap and let it sit for about 10 minutes.  Car wash soap does not have ammonia and dries streak free.  Ammonia destroys car paint, and it also makes brass brittle and weak.  Basically anything good enough for a car’s paint is good enough for brass.  After 10 minutes, Cartmann will stir the bucket about 10 times with his hand, then dump the soapy water and brass through a strainer.   Cartmann will then rinse the brass 2 times by putting the brass back in the bucket with fresh water and strain again.  To dry Cartmann just leaves the brass outside in the desert heat, or in the warm house if it is winter.



Case Prep #6
Tumble #2 – This step is not necessary unless you like extra shiny brass. Here you will tumble for another 1-2 hours (good to do other stuff while you let the tumbler work), the longer you tumble the shinier the brass will be.  Cartmann’s preferred Media is 24 grit walnut shells, it does a good job in cleaning and smoothing.  It also lasts a very long time.  25 pounds of this stuff goes for about $25 at a hobby store and should last about about 80,000 cases (or more).


Put in about 2 cap full of NuFinish in media and tumble for about a minute to work the NuFinish in the Media.


Now put in about 7 handfuls (grab as much as you can per handful) of brass, along with 2 sheets of used Bounce Dryer sheets, and place them into the tumbler.  The Bounce keeps the Media fresher as it picks up all the dust, grit, and grime.


1.5 hours later in the tumbler brass comes out looking pretty good.  If left for another hour they will look even better.


Into the RCBS media separator


The RCBS media separator works pretty dang good, if you spin it fast about 25 rotation it knocks out all the Media from inside the cases.  Here is the brass after those 25 rotations:



Case Prep #7
Trimming and deburring – After sizing case will grow and you have to bring it back down to spec.  Max length for .308 case is 2.015, but trim length should be around 2.005 (no lower).  The Giraud trims, deburs, and chamfers both inside and outside in one motion.  Case trimming is the abosolute worse thing about reloading but Giraud makes it easy and kinda fun, it's almost as good as sex.


Before I bought the Giraud, This is how I use to trim:
These mostly-Lee Tools only cost about $25 total.  I should have put this in the "Cartmann complete .308 Reloading" thread.
- Lee Ball Cutter $6
- RCBS inside and outside the case chamfer tool ($12)
- Lee lockstud for drill or electric screwdriver ($5)
- Lee .308 shell holder for lockstud ($3)
- Drill or electric screwdriver that can turn slowly (Free - you should have one already, if you don't then check in your man card and apply to be a female at the nearest FEMA office)

The Ball cutter is easy to use, it has a case length gauge and you cut until it does not cut anymore more.  The gauge hits the bottom of the base thereby ceasing to cut, no thinking involved.  For the chamfer tool, just half a second for each the inside and outside of the case is all you need for nice chamfer.  These Lee trimmer tools are easy to use, and they work.  However, they are about 10 times slower than a Giraud.  Also you get the pleasure of cramped fingers with these tools if you are doing 200 or more in one sitting.



Chamfer of LC cases (6) done by Giraud on the left.  Factory Virgin Lapua (9) cases on the right for comparison.



When Reloaders go to heaven they never have to do case prep again, they get virgin Lapua Brass each and every time they reload, like the Lapua brass you see here.



Case Prep #8
Primer Pocket Cleaning and Final inspection – Step 8 is important because you don’t know where your once-fired brass came from or how it was shot.  Here you are looking for visible signs of brass weakness such as cracks on the walls or at the mouth.  Also you want to check the flash hole to see if it is obstructed.   If 762 NATO brass was fired from a Machine Gun with really excessive headspace, you will see a ring outside or inside the case.  This ring is a good indication case separation will occur.  Cartmann inspects about 1 out of every 5 for this sign of case separation by using a flashlight to peek inside the case for this ring.  To finish you might as well take one full rotation in the primer pocket using the RCBS primer pocket cleaner.  Cartmann is not sure primer pocket cleaning helps, but it’s not that much work and will help new primer to go in easier. 


Once fired LC cleaned primer pocket next to new Lapua Brass


CASE PREP COMPLETE and now we are ready to Reload!



Bullets - 4000 FMJ-BT bullets.  Winchester 147gr FMJ in the white boxes, Hornandy 150gr FMJ in the big brown box



Bullets Part 2 – 1200 Hornandy 150gr Softpoint bullets received as a bonus with the purchase of Hornandy’s LNL Progressive Press.



Bullets Part 3 – Sierra Match Kings 168gr HPBT and 175gr HPBT bullets with fully loaded rounds (in blue boxes) using SMK bullets.



Primers – Because of the primer shortage, Cartmann has only used CCI and Wolf Primers the past 2 years, and is very happy with the results.   Cartmann has not used much Magtech Primers, but the times he did use it he did not have problems with it.



Powders – Cartmann prefers Varget over all others because it is insensitive to temperature.  Which is important in the Nevada Desert where you will have summers days where the temp will be 115 degrees.  H335 also has worked out well for Cartmann for both 223 and 308, it is hotter than Varget but meters very nicely on the Hornandy LNL progressive press.  Cartmann thought he would give RL15 a try since the new batch is suppose to be insensitive to temperature, and it is also the powder in M118LR (Military .308 Sniper Round).

[EricCartmann]

Bulk Reloading on the Hornandy LNL Progressive Press.  Up until now, we only used a single stage press.  However now that the brass suitable to work with, we will now complete the process by going on the LNL .
   
Hornandy Lock and Load Progressive Press
1) Station 1 – Resizing (skipped stepped because cases are already sized.  Cartmann likes the RCBS X-Die for this as it is a die where trimming is not needed after the initial trim)
2) Station 2 – Priming (some don’t consider this a station as it requires no dies)
3) Station 3 – Powder Dispenser
4) Station 4 – Powder Check (to make sure cases are properly charged)
5) Station 5 – Bullet Seating
6) Station 6 – Not being used here, but plenty of things you can add to the LNL to use it, such as a crimp die, or an expander (when loading for pistols)



Here I replaced the Station 4 Hornandy LNL powder check die with the RCBS powder check die.  The RCBS unit had more consistent readings because it was heavier, and it came with 3 different rod heads to match calibers better.
When the top of the rod (white cap) aligns with the O-ring, it means there is exactly 42.3 gr of H335.



The components we will use for our rounds:
Bullet: Winchester 147gr FMJ
Powder: H335 (because it meters nicely, within .2 grains)
Brass: LC (already prepped)
Primer: CCI 200



Primer pickup to load in the Hornandy LNL.  We use the Hornandy supplied tubes to pick up primers.  Notice Cartmann’s high speed Primer-Flipper-Tool (a Dixie paper plate) to get the primers right side up for pickup.



Once primer pick up tube is full, place other end of tube in the LNL then remove the cotter pin and Primers will fall right into the LNL primer tube.  I noticed the Hornandy LNL powder dispenser is more consistent with the cap off.



Pull the lever and primer tube will feed the primer slide.  Push the lever and you just primed the case.



Completed rounds fall into the red bin.   For the first round you should confirm powder charge (before seating bullet of course) and the OAL of the round.  When using Military bullets with Cannelure, Cartmann likes to load halfway to the cannelure, which is 2.79” for the Winchester 147gr bullet.



See how Factory ammo measures up for even more comparison.



Complete! 404 rounds of .308 M80 clones are complete and ready to go to the range



I was watching the Pitt/WVa game and thought I would be useful by putting the rounds on stripper clips….



… and into the ammo can.



When I was done with the stripper clips it was not even half time yet.  So I thought I would make some match rounds.
First lets weight the powder (RL15 in the picture) for every round.  Cartmann is bypassing the LNL press here because he is more accurate than the LNL powder dispenser.  This Arsenal scale from Midway is very accurate and well worth the $20.  You can even trickle with this thing, but it is slow to adjust.   Cartmann is fairly fast at manual weighing, he uses the Lee Dipper and that gets him very close.  Then from there, use a tiny spoon to add.  Varget and RL15 is easy, 6 pellets = about .1 gr.



Eventually Cartmann just decided to get a RCBS Chargemaster to make it easier.  This Chargemaster is a must have, gets the precise load about 90% of the time.  Every once in awhile it will be about .1 grain too high because it trickled too much.  .1 grains is good enough for most people, but if not, then just pour the powder back in the dispenser and put tray back on.  The Chargemaster will automatically fill the tray each time an empty tray is placed on the unit.  It takes about 20 seconds for the Chargemaster to fill the tray with 44 grains, which is faster than I can prime a case and seat a bullet.



Then weigh brass and bullets for consistency.  Remember we are loading match ammo here so not only are the best components used, but also we make sure the best components have the same weight.  Notice how the 175gr SMK’s are exactly 175gr!  Actually not all of them were, this box varied in weight from 174.8 to 175.2…. good enough.



Lee Dippers.  This is a handy set to have if you don't have the Chargemaster, it even comes with a sliding chart so you can see how much certain powders weigh based on the size of the dipper.



Flash Hole deburring -
The saying goes is that this tool makes your flash hole "uniform" so it will get a more consistent flash and powder burn.  Normally I never debur the flash-hole as part of my case prep.  I am not sure if this tool is even needed or how much of a difference it makes.  If there is a difference, I am not seeing it.   When I am making precision rounds, I flash hole debur every case with this tool, but that's only because it's a simple process and better safe than sorry right?  Same goes for adding a drop of holy water to each round, not sure if helps, but better safe than sorry right? 



Hornandy Concentricity Gauge Tool -
Difference in weight of powder and bullet seating has very little affect in accuracy.  Inaccuracies and "Flyers" come into play when the bullet is not perfectly concentric.  This tool right here not only measures concentricity (also called "runout"), but also corrects it.  I was able to get all my test bullets to within .002" runout. 

At the range, even though my groups did not tighten after using this tool, it seems to work as advertise as I did not get any "flyers" with my 10 test loads.



MCR Bullet Meplatt Trimmer -
I have not range tested this tool yet.  I am not sure if it is needed, but I will say it puts a nice looking chamfer on the hollow point bullets. So if you are into artistic bullets, than you have already spent your money well  .  Some guys swear by this tool.  One of the precision guy I know says you will see a difference once you go past 600 yards (at least half MOA, YMMV based on shooter).

Here is the tool, as you can see it comes in 3 peices, a with a trimmer, an inside chamfer, and the main body that holds the bullet.  On the far left, you can see I placed a bullet inside the body already.



Bullets on the left are 175gr Sierra Matchkings right out of the box.  The Bullets on the right are the same bullets, but trimmed with the MCR Meplatt trimming tool.



Cartmann likes to label and mark his match loads if they are sharing the same box



Hornady Press conversion to LNL quick change bushings -
This thing right here can convert any press with 1 1/4 -12 threads to a press that will be able to use Hornady quick change bushings.  Here it is on a Lee Classic Press.  No adjusting of dies ever again.  Just place in, turn 1/18" turn and the already adjusted die locks into place at the exact same position it was set at before.



Reloading gets messy, so now it is time to cleanup using a portable shop vac, a paint brush, and a oil rag to wipe everything down.



The Cartmann man room is all cleaned and ready to be used for the next time

[pazzo]

Excellent. Thanks for taking the time to post this

[gunner69]

Good thing my wife doesn't use a computer.........  my bench is a mess compared to this.   Nice post.

[ny32182]

Pretty sweet!  RCBS primer pocket swager die; I will need to look into that.  I use a hand tool now to cut out the crimp, and it sucks.

How do you know when the inside of the cases are really dry after the soap wash?  I wouldn't think it would take much moisture to mess up a powder charge.

I tumble to get lube off, and any given batch of media only lasts for a few hundred rounds.  80,000 from a single bulk media purchase would be a pipe dream for me.

[Underground]

Good stuff!  But you didn't have any action shots.   

[DSM]

.........  my bench is a mess compared to this.   Nice post.

Hey, I resemble that remark!   

[Tinman]

Cartmann has some very nice toys. good job

[Fast Eddie]

Cartman,
Great post.  I haven't loaded rifle yet so this is a great tutorial for me.  I hope everyone appreciates the photography and staging for the photography...very professional.  Not so professional was the scotch/rocks and basketball game at the work bench.  I'm a newbie but I thought altered consciousness and distractions were a no-no  
Questions:  
1) After the first sizing and trimming, how many times have you resized a case with the RCBS-X die, and how close to spec does it keep the case length each time?

2)  In case prep #1, are you really throwing just the brass with a cap full of Nu Finish and two used bounce sheets in the tumbler, with no media?

3)  I've used Nu Finish on my car before.  Does it work as well as brass polish?

4)  Is the H335 as heat stable as the Varget?  What about Win 231?  I live in a desert as well.

PS.. love the certificate of appreciation!  You deserve it.

[jrsweb]

Wow. This is a great forum. I don't shoot or load .308 but had to look this through. Cartmann nice job!

Funny about the portable vac. I have one too.... probably one of the most important tools to have especially when trimming, de-priming and other messy steps.

Been looking at getting H335 for 223 but have not found any locally or online. I have had same experience with Varget as you did - the extruded powder does not meter well in progressive presses (I have Dillon 550B). Switched to TAC temporarily until I can find some H335.

The setup you have is what I have been looking to move to - getting a single stage or turret press to perform rifle processes. I love the Dillon just like I'm sure you like the LNL but having that additional press for specific steps would sure help me out.

Thanks for sharing. Maybe you should have saved this as your 2012 post..... high impact and not divide by 0! 

[EricCartmann]

Pretty sweet!  RCBS primer pocket swager die; I will need to look into that.  I use a hand tool now to cut out the crimp, and it sucks.

How do you know when the inside of the cases are really dry after the soap wash?  I wouldn't think it would take much moisture to mess up a powder charge.

I tumble to get lube off, and any given batch of media only lasts for a few hundred rounds.  80,000 from a single bulk media purchase would be a pipe dream for me.

I am at about 5000 cases on this one batch of media right now and it is still working pretty good. 

As for the drying, I leave it out to dry for a couple of days in the winter.  In the summer it completely dries after 1 hour (with the 100+ Nevada Desert heat).

[EricCartmann]

Cartman,
Great post.  I haven't loaded rifle yet so this is a great tutorial for me.  I hope everyone appreciates the photography and staging for the photography...very professional.  Not so professional was the scotch/rocks and basketball game at the work bench.  I'm a newbie but I thought altered consciousness and distractions were a no-no  
Questions:  
1) After the first sizing and trimming, how many times have you resized a case with the RCBS-X die, and how close to spec does it keep the case length each time?

2)  In case prep #1, are you really throwing just the brass with a cap full of Nu Finish and two used bounce sheets in the tumbler, with no media?

3)  I've used Nu Finish on my car before.  Does it work as well as brass polish?

4)  Is the H335 as heat stable as the Varget?  What about Win 231?  I live in a desert as well.

PS.. love the certificate of appreciation!  You deserve it.

1) The Xdie does work as adverise after the first initial trim.  case grew .003" which is well below spec (start at 2.005 and max length is 2.015.

2) Always have media.

3) It works great on brass.  The longer you use it, the more it powders up, even Nufinish powder seems to be working the brass.  The bounce dryer sheets picks up the excess nufinish, grit, lube, and grime very nicely.

4) H335 has a pretty big range due to temperature.  When it was a 110, my average FPS was 2790 (147gr FMJ).  When it was 50 degrees my average FPS was 2720.  As always there is more to chrono results then what the numbers say.  Chrono numbers can vary greatly other than temperature, how far was your chono away? how high above bore you shot on the chrono?  Did you use powder on the same batch?  Did you use primers on the same batch? 

I like H335, it gives me consistent groupings (even if chrono results does not show it) and it meters nicely.  For plinking loads though I might try Ramshot Tac to save an extra $10 per 2200 rounds.  Then again, I know what I have works so is it worth it to experiment again just for the sake of saving $10 over 2000 rounds?

[hunter s gatherer]

Say, buddy- got a match?

[EricCartmann]

Good stuff!  But you didn't have any action shots.   

You got it.  Actually I did go out today to test my loads, not groupings, just chorno'ing.

I was not happy with the either the 43.1 gr of RL15 or the 42.3 gr of Varget shooting the 175gr SMK.  It was 55 degrees and the RL15 got me 2530 FPS on average.  While the Varget I was about 2480 on average.  The purpose of me using 175 gr is so I can shoot at 1000 yards, and to stay supersonic past 1000 yards I need to be at 2560 fps.  I just need to load a little bit hotter, but of course when the temp rises to 110 in the summer that should get me another 30-50 fps easily.

Here are some shots from today.


300 meter firing line with the guys from Snipers Hide



James testing my PTR91.  Had this weapon for over a year and have not shot it yet.  It shot 60 rounds of South African without issues.



Cartmanns gun was a loner today, it was the only semi auto on the line.  It did just fine on the 500 meter line firing line once Cartmann dialed in the elevation.  Cartmann's AR10 is only a 1 MOA gun, but man it can do rapid fire! Make hits 3 times as faster than everyone else at 500 meters 



500 meters away from the target (upper human silhouette size gong)



1000 meters away - looks like the 500 meter picture but notice how you can see 2 times more mountain!



Shooting at 1000 yards away.  No one was able to hit the gong with one shot, but a couple of guys did hit it with 3 shots.  I myself hit it on the first shot but it did not count because my buddy J told me the elevation and windage adjustments for his gun.  Also I was using his precision bolt gun and not my AR-10.   J told me the elevation was 10.3 mils low, and .3 mils to the left.  Took him 3 shots to figure out this out.



This is the J's gun that I used to make my one shot kill.  It's a custom .308 bolt action with Lothar Barrel, AIS stock, custom Silencer, and US-optic scope with Horus reticle.  That Horus is one sweet reticle!  No turret adjustment needed, all holdovers.  Just by J saying ok I figured it out, it is 10.3 mils to low and .3 mils left.  All I had to do was line up the 10.3 mil elevation and .3 mil windage and I made the hit on one shot!  I am sold on this scope and it is in my future plans.  Besides the reticle, it's mag was like 25x and was super clear.  Of course now I will need a 1/4 MOA gun to use it with 



Here is me shooting that J's gun 500 meters away.  I totally missed here because I did not understand the reticle

[Underground]

Ah, even more good stuff!  Actually I was talking about the reloading.  But, if you ever get bored again, you should try making a short video clip of each step.  With cheesy 1950's educational film voice over and sound track for good effect of course.   

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1912914877397973721#

[olan025]

Nice Bench, thanks for taking the time to post this.

btw - where is the refrigerator and booze?

[magikbullet]

cool thread 

[EricCartmann]

Nice Bench, thanks for taking the time to post this.

btw - where is the refrigerator and booze?

This one post was done in a period of a couple of weeks, I took and uploaded the images over time and added the text daily to a word document.  There are a lot of good reloading stuff out there on the internet, but Cartmann thought he would add his 2 cents to help get others to take the plunge. 

I am fairly new to reloading myself, about 3 years and my reloading set up is still a work in progress.  A LNL Case feeder, Dillon Super Swager, and RCBS Chargmasters are the planned purchases in the near future.

It is a myth reloading will save you money.  You might save money per round, but you just end up shooting more, and then there is fact that there is always equipment and components you will need.  It seems reloading equipment purchases are never ending, there is always something you will need. 

For the budget minded, you can start for as little as $130.  Lee Handpress, Lee Dies, and Lee cutting tools, etc.

[jrsweb]

It is a myth reloading will save you money.  You might save money per round, but you just end up shooting more, and then there is fact that there is always equipment and components you will need.

This is so true. That is why purchasing component deals when on sale and keeping stock is the best way to go. If you have some other friends that reload, buying in bulk saves money. Plus you can share procedures, recipes, etc. I've learned lots of things from many others... that is why I find these threads so interesting and always educational. Sometimes validation of your findings from someone else is invaluable. Or finding out about a cool tool that you were not aware of. You can never have enough tools. 

[DSM]

You can never have enough tools.

Ne'er a truer word has been spoken.


Cartmann- Once you get that casefeeder you won't remember how you got along without it! 

[EricCartmann]

Ne'er a truer word has been spoken.


Cartmann- Once you get that casefeeder you won't remember how you got along without it! 

I won't ever have to take my hand off the press handle.  In addition to speeding up my production, it will help in better QC, since I only have to concentrate on the bullet and not Brass+Bullet.  I can concentrate more on the powder check die, and primer seating. 

[DSM]

Exactly.  On the Dillon I get into a rhythm of drop in a bullet, press stroke, check powder, check primer drop on the up stroke and give the loaded round a quick once over as it drops into the tray.  Mw wife said it looked like I was watching a tennis match once but it goes very fast.  One of these days I'll convince myself to get a bullet feeder but those are quite a few bills.

[MickeyC]

On my Dillons I just keep one hand on the handle and the other feeds bullets. The case feeder and powder checks do the rest. Recharge primers every 100 rounds and continue. some sessions have left me with cramp in my arm...go figure.

[EricCartmann]

Went back to the desert today to test my loads today.   Master Spotter Mini-Cartmann went with me.  He can convert mils to MOA in fraction of a seconds.  He can also range human targets all the way out to 1100 yards and be off no more than 2 yards 



Here is Mini-Cartmann spotting for me.



I think I found my Varget/175gr-SMK load!  About 2560 muzzle velocity and .59" at 100 yards.  The 175gr SMK's are good out to 1000 yards as long as I keep muzzle velocity above 2550 fps.  I only brought 4 rounds of each test load and was only testing for velocity and signs of over pressure, however I was able to get this group with 42.9gr of Varget. 

[hunter s gatherer]

Nice armory. Always very impressed with your sense of order and detail. Makes me think of starting a thread on the well stocked bunker.

[EricCartmann]

Nice armory. Always very impressed with your sense of order and detail. Makes me think of starting a thread on the well stocked bunker.

Thank you.  Some people say OCD is a handicap though. 

[gunner69]

Eric..... you fuckin' amaze me.......    Keep up the good work.

[MickeyC]

Dues deserved, it's a lot neater than my setup.

[DSM]

Dues deserved, it's a lot neater than my setup.

And why there shall never be a pic of my shit pit bench!

[MickeyC]

Here's mine








.308 results out of a Tikka T3

[EricCartmann]

Nice set up Mick.  I see you have a dedicated pistol and rifle set up not to mention all those tool heads and powder dispensers already set up for other calibers.

Nice grouping!  One of these days I am going to have to do more 3 shot groups (instead of 5), to get my groups tighter 

[MickeyC]

Thanks, it's nowhere near as clean as yours. I have two Dillons, one for large primer and one for small primer with the Co-Ax for the really accurate, expensive or low volume stuff like .338Lapua, .303 or competition ammo.

The group was loaded with the Dillon on the left (Large primer) using RA brass and CCI primers with 2520 powder pushing 168g .308 SMKs. When I ran a series of ten rounds through the chrono I got six right on 2754fps, and that is out of a dillon powder measure.

Regarding groups, behave. I use three shot groups on bolt guns and five shot groups on semi-autos. Three shot groups are fine on a bolt gun and give a better indication of zero for a cold bore shot and also the accuracy the load is capable of. For semi-autos I find a five shot group is much more indicative of the slightly wider spread they achieve.

Here is .338 Lapua group, this one is loaded on the CO-AX and using the Luman DPS to meter every powder charge. Later this summer I'll move grouing to 300 as it should go better. At 100 the round is still unstable so 100 yards doesn't really show the full potential. It has shot consistently under 1" at 200 yards but 300 seems a more reasonable benchmark.

[EricCartmann]

I was just joking, we all know bolt guns kick ass over semi auto when it comes to pure accuracy.  Nice groupings! I don't think I am there yet, even if I had the ultimate bolt gun.

[MickeyC]

 

I figured.

I shot crap, barely under an inch with the same rifle when I started again a few years back. I reduced my caffene intake drastically and cut it out completely 48 hours before a shoot and it made a huge difference. anyway out of a semi auto your groups are pretty damned good as it is. Get a decent bolt gun and you'll be shooting quarters all day long.

[EricCartmann]

That "no caffeine" rule is no joke, I heard another guy talking about that.  The world (and scope) just seems to stand still when you are totally relaxed with no caffeine in your system.

[EricCartmann]

Get a decent bolt gun and you'll be shooting quarters all day long.

You are evil, I really don't need anymore influence to spend any more money I should not be spending! 

I am just going to stick with the AR10 for my precision shooting till the end of the year.  In 2011 if the world does not end by then, I'll start work on my precision bolt gun with all the goodies!  Thinking of going 6.8 creedmore, but the .308 is more common and wins it's fair share of matches, so Limitation seems to be the trigger pulling device and not the round or the gun.

[aziator]

Thanks, it's nowhere near as clean as yours. I have two Dillons, one for large primer and one for small primer with the Co-Ax for the really accurate, expensive or low volume stuff like .338Lapua, .303 or competition ammo.

The group was loaded with the Dillon on the left (Large primer) using RA brass and CCI primers with 2520 powder pushing 168g .308 SMKs. When I ran a series of ten rounds through the chrono I got six right on 2754fps, and that is out of a dillon powder measure.

How much 2520?  I was thinking about loading with that and picked up a pound to try.

[MickeyC]

45 grains. It's spherical so it meters really accuratly in a volume based meter.

[aziator]

My book shows that right at the max so I will work up towards that.

[MickeyC]

It is, but I seat the bullet slightly forward in the case to get it closer to the rifling so pressure is a little lower than max.

[EricCartmann]

It is, but I seat the bullet slightly forward in the case to get it closer to the rifling so pressure is a little lower than max.

That's right, longer OAL is more pressure.  The ogive of the bullet actually occupies the chamber.

[aziator]

I bought some milspec 168 bullets from wideners recently and they are just slightly longer (1.23in) than the 168 SMK (1.19in).

[MickeyC]

Would those be the PriviPartizan tips?

I had some and they were longer but the ogive on my batch hasn't been an issue, as that is what is being seated. The ogive to the rear of the bullet affects case seating while the ogive to the rifling can affect accuracy and stability. Some 168g tips have a longer ogive than others so you'll need to test a few different seating combinations. I only move the tip out a little so any pressue increase is minimal and despite the load data showing this as the maximum I'm fairly sure there is a safety value built in as most handloading data rarely meets the velocity promises of factory ammo.

Work the load up. I fireform the brass and use a neck die to maximize brass life. Just keep an eye on your primers and watch for case issues. I find 45g works fine, at 46 I was having issues so I wound it back down. Within a few tenths grouping didn't suffer at all. I'm pretty sure I am not at max pressure as brass is lasting six to seven reloads at this point.

When it comes to accuracy I find that consistency between each round is more important than the actual velocity. Take your time loading and make sure even and consistent powder charges are dropped. AA2520 is the most consistent powder I have found both in terms of metering by volume and velocity.

There is an interesting article here , browse down, on OAL and pressure. http://www.barnesbullets.com/resources/newsletters/september-2007-barnes-bullet-n/

[EricCartmann]

Good link Micky, and a very interesting read.

If we are talking precision, check out this link: http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=372917

It seems for accuracy concentricity of the bullet and brass is much more important than anything else (powder charge, seating depth, etc).

[EricCartmann]

Signs of Overpressure

is something we have not covered yet.  I found this pic over on the FALfiles and it explains it all.

[MickeyC]

Good link Micky, and a very interesting read.

If we are talking precision, check out this link: http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=372917

It seems for accuracy concentricity of the bullet and brass is much more important than anything else (powder charge, seating depth, etc).

It is but that is more something that benchrest shooters try, plus roling brass etc.. is a pain in the ass. Other extremes include sifting powder to get uniform sized grains to ensure burn uniformity etc.. It all comes down to how far you are willing to go and how tight a set of groups you wish to shoot.

[DSM]

When you're looking for extreme accuracy it's all a matter of trivial details.  I'll ream flash holes and primer pockets, I'll neck turn sometimes, weigh brass and sort into batches, etc, etc.  Each additional step may only gain you a fraction of an MOA but all of them added together can really add up.  Get a hold of one of the Sinclair reloading books, they do a real nice run down of the steps and such.  I think there was a write up on the Sniper Country site from someone that did it too.

For so many rounds it kind of fun but if you try to do too many it is crazy.

[EricCartmann]

I did not do any of the stuff that bench rest shooters do such as measure runout, size to my chamber, and measure every case by water volume, but then again I am reloading for a gas gun so it's really over kill.

I used badly malformed machine gun brass that were FL sized with $10 Lee sizer dies set straight from the factory, measured how far the shoulders pushed back with only calipers, this is not precise at all because you can't really eyeball 3 thousandth of an inch (was too cheap to buy case gauges, but I just now bought 2 from Dillion, a .223 and .308).  I did weigh the bullets for he hell of it, but not weigh the cases... well long story short, I got .59 MOA out of a gas gun.

When I build my precision rifle though, I will be doing all the fine details... to a benchrest shooter there is a huge difference between .25 and .50 MOA, for me not so much because I like to shoot prone without rear support other than my non-trigger arm.  of course the biggest weakness of any groupins is the machine (or fool) that pulls the trigger.

[aziator]

Would those be the PriviPartizan tips?

Not sure, they came in a big plastic bag. 

http://www.wideners.com/itemdetail.cfm?item_id=8439&dir=278|281|727

The weights aren't all exactly 168 but they are close.  I am going to start out loading them to 2.785 OAL and go from there.  I will do 44gr of 2520 and increase by .2 until I show signs of over pressurization.  I am shooting out of a 18" barrel with a can so I will probably be at the higher end of the powder just to get the velocity up.  I bought 5 different powders to try and see which one I like the best.  I figure I should be able to work up a nice load from one of them.

[MickeyC]

I'm pretty sure they are Privi-Partizan. Pretty nice bullets actually. I shoot the 75 grain .224 for practice and save the SMK for competitions.

Let me know how you get on with these as I've been considering some for a while.

[gunner69]

I tried to buy these from Widners,  but they won't sell in the State of Alabama!!!   They look like nice bullets.

[aziator]

I tried to buy these from Widners,  but they won't sell in the State of Alabama!!!   They look like nice bullets.

You could always send them to my house and I will send them to you.

[gunner69]

Appreciate it Cris,  With all I have spent lately for shootin' goodies I couldn't justify it.  I visited a local Gun Shop today and had the chance to buy a brand new Chinese Army issue Mauser Broomhandle with 20 round magazine today for $1,100.00!!!   Made me want to run out and sell something.......

[SDDuc996]

Shooting at 1000 yards away.  No one was able to hit the gong with one shot, but a couple of guys did hit it with 3 shots.  I myself hit it on the first shot but it did not count because my buddy J told me the elevation and windage adjustments for his gun.  Also I was using his precision bolt gun and not my AR-10.   J told me the elevation was 10.3 mils low, and .3 mils to the left.  Took him 3 shots to figure out this out.



This is the J's gun that I used to make my one shot kill.  It's a custom .308 bolt action with Lothar Barrel, AIS stock, custom Silencer, and US-optic scope with Horus reticle.  That Horus is one sweet reticle!  No turret adjustment needed, all holdovers.  Just by J saying ok I figured it out, it is 10.3 mils to low and .3 mils left.  All I had to do was line up the 10.3 mil elevation and .3 mil windage and I made the hit on one shot!  I am sold on this scope and it is in my future plans.  Besides the reticle, it's mag was like 25x and was super clear.  Of course now I will need a 1/4 MOA gun to use it with 

Nice shooting position Cartmann. A lot of people don't get something as simple as that.

I don't reload as I got my ammo for free from my Uncle S . However, after this excellent post, I am sold. I really appreciate the attention to detail as well especially the certificate of appreciation.

Fantastic post Cartmann! When I return, I will be looking into reloading.

[EricCartmann]

I don't reload as I got my ammo for free from my Uncle S . However, after this excellent post, I am sold. I really appreciate the attention to detail as well especially the certificate of appreciation.

Fantastic post Cartmann! When I return, I will be looking into reloading.

No problem.  Reloading is not rocket science and easy to get started.  Give me a PM (that goes to anyone) if you have questions.

[EricCartmann]

Updated OP with Chargemaster :biggrin:


I did not like wasting time weighing powder for precision loading and thanks to a little motivational push by XCR forum members, Cartmann plunked down dinero for a RCBS Chargemaster.  This Chargemaster is a must have, gets the precise load about 90% of the time.  Every once in awhile it will be about .1 grain too high because it trickled too much.  .1 grains is good enough for most people, but if not, then just pour the powder back in the dispenser and put tray back on.  The Chargemaster will automatically fill the tray each time an empty tray is placed on the unit.  It takes about 10 seconds for the Chargemaster to fill the tray with 44 grains, which is faster than I can prime a case and seat a bullet.  I have no idea how I even got by without the Chargemaster.



Dillon case gauges to check if your re-sized cases are in spec.  .308 and .223.

[ny32182]

Nice... I think the Chargemaster + Giraud trimmer would, overall, speed me up more than a progressive press would for rifle anyway.  I would like to get all that stuff eventually.  As usual Cartmann's loading setup is the inspiration that drives mine!

This might be 100% a result of me not knowing how it physically works, but, right now I don't know that I would trust any charger that doesn't weigh each one thrown.  That just wouldn't sit right with me.

[EricCartmann]

Nice... I think the Chargemaster + Giraud trimmer would, overall, speed me up more than a progressive press would for rifle anyway.  I would like to get all that stuff eventually.  As usual Cartmann's loading setup is the inspiration that drives mine!

This might be 100% a result of me not knowing how it physically works, but, right now I don't know that I would trust any charger that doesn't weigh each one thrown.  That just wouldn't sit right with me.

4 words: RCBS Powder Check Die.

The Hornandy LNL Powder dispenser works good for ball powder, about 40% of the time it is either dead on or +/- 0.1 gr, another 40% of the time it will be about +/- 0.2 gr.  The other 20% of the time it will be about +/-3 gr off.  This is not a scientific study, just my observation from casual observance.  That is why the Powder Check die is key!

I had the Hornandy, but it used one rod for all calibers, and the rod was too light so it gave false readings every now and then.  The RCBS Powder Check die is much better.  The rod head comes in 3 different sizes that you can use from anything from .22 to .45.  The rod is also heavy duty so it will not give you false readings.

When the top of the rod (white cap) aligns with the O-ring, it means there is exactly 42.3 gr of H335.

[jrsweb]

Cartmann,

You got me to finally move to the next level this last week after 6 months of research. Bought another press, got a bunch of new dies and bought lots of new tools. Now I'm wondering why I waited so long. Don't get me wrong - I had a very good setup before but now things are so much easier and more precise..... so now I can put out quantity as well as better quality.

You can never have enough tools.

Thanks for the thread!

[ny32182]

About that RCBS swager, I see that the part that does the swaging is attached to the ram... does it just drop on in place of any regular shellholder?  My press is a Redding and all my shellholders are Redding, so I guess what I am trying to confirm is that the shellholder interface is standard across brands like the die threading is.

So you just set the sized case on the little swaging nipple there and run it up into a die that just acts as a stop to press the case hard against?

[ny32182]

4 words: RCBS Powder Check Die.

The Hornandy LNL Powder dispenser works good for ball powder, about 40% of the time it is either dead on or +/- 0.1 gr, another 40% of the time it will be about +/- 0.2 gr.  The other 20% of the time it will be about +/-3 gr off.  This is not a scientific study, just my observation from casual observance.  That is why the Powder Check die is key!

I had the Hornandy, but it used one rod for all calibers, and the rod was too light so it gave false readings every now and then.  The RCBS Powder Check die is much better.  The rod head comes in 3 different sizes that you can use from anything from .22 to .45.  The rod is also heavy duty so it will not give you false readings.

When the top of the rod (white cap) aligns with the O-ring, it means there is exactly 42.3 gr of H335.

So this just drops a feeler rod of some sort onto the powder in the case and measures via height that the powder pushes the rod?  Looks reasonable.  How small a charge variation can that detect with one second of eyeballing?

[MickeyC]

Dillon do a powder check too. It's not for checking the quality or accuracy of the load but rather, to tell you if you either missed a drop or double dropped powder.

[EricCartmann]

Cartmann,

You got me to finally move to the next level this last week after 6 months of research. Bought another press, got a bunch of new dies and bought lots of new tools. Now I'm wondering why I waited so long. Don't get me wrong - I had a very good setup before but now things are so much easier and more precise..... so now I can put out quantity as well as better quality.

You can never have enough tools.

Thanks for the thread!

What did you get?  Thanks for the props but my set up is just a work in progress.  Nothing like my MickyC, Duke (EBRSopmods), or Randall's (AR15 barrels). 

Your right, never can have enough tools!  I quit skimping on tools and figured out that collecting tools is just as fun as collecting guns.

[EricCartmann]

About that RCBS swager, I see that the part that does the swaging is attached to the ram... does it just drop on in place of any regular shellholder?  My press is a Redding and all my shellholders are Redding, so I guess what I am trying to confirm is that the shellholder interface is standard across brands like the die threading is.

So you just set the sized case on the little swaging nipple there and run it up into a die that just acts as a stop to press the case hard against?

That is correct, it goes in place of the shell holder.  Shell holders are pretty much universal.  I have Lee, Hornandy, and RCBS shell holders and all work equally well.

The way I set it up is I use the "collar" thinging on the swaging nipple... then I tighten the Die all the way down till it hits this coller.  To swage I take off the coller and just use the nipple.  To take off the case, rock back and forth.

[EricCartmann]

Dillon do a powder check too. It's not for checking the quality or accuracy of the load but rather, to tell you if you either missed a drop or double dropped powder.

+1 to what Micky said.  You won't catch +/- 0.2 grains with this thing, but you will catch a .5gr or more difference.  Keep in mind that even factory match ammo can be as much as +/- 0.3 grains difference.

When loading bulk milsurp FMJ bullets, +/- 0.5 grains won't make much of a difference for accuracy.  The bullet itself is not all that accurate to begin with.  Runout (non-concentric) of these will be a lot more than match ammo and they are not as consistent.  Bulk FMJ also has a huge variance in weight.  It may say 55gr on the box but some bullets may be as low as 54 gr and has high as 56 gr for a 2.0 gr difference between high and low! 

Keep it inside 300 yards, all the bullets should land in pretty much the same place, even with a +/- 0.5 grain difference in powder, or a 2.0 gr difference in bullet.

[ny32182]

Thanks guys.  I think I'm going to order that swager right now.  I don't like cutting out primer crimps with a hand tool any more than trimming with hand tools.

[Jack-O]

Cartman,
  My chargemaster takes about 38-42 seconds to throw a 50gr charge of extruded powder from the 762x54r.  I dont know if it's the powder or not, but it didnt seem to matter what weight I chose with that stuff it still took the same time.

Can you try to throw a charge of some extruded powder like 4895 or something see if you get the same results.

[jrsweb]

What did you get?  Thanks for the props but my set up is just a work in progress.  Nothing like my MickyC, Duke (EBRSopmods), or Randall's (AR15 barrels). 

Your right, never can have enough tools!  I quit skimping on tools and figured out that collecting tools is just as fun as collecting guns.

My setup is not major by any means. The biggest addition was a new turret press along with a bunch of new dies from Redding, RCBS and Lee. I have a progressive press (Dillon 550) but really needed that other press so I could perform case prep and other procedures more efficiently. So I basically upgraded both setups and added a bunch of new gadgets.

I did case prep for several hundred 223 with crimped primers (de-cap, swaging, lube, sizing, and trimming) while watching the boring ending Olympic ceremony. I will go through more tonight watching 24. This is the most TV I have watched in ages....... and I got a lot of stuff done.

You guys validated that I needed to get the separate press. I just hate having to explain now why I got a lower end press because people assume that getting the high end progressive is the way to go and all you will need. In retrospect, I should have probably done it the other way around. I don't know anyone that moved to a progressive which dumped their single stage or turret press.

The other thing I like is the way you guys mixed up your equipment like I did. I have from all the different vendors. I have blue, red, green and everything else in between. You have to have an open mind to really get the best setup and you guys have shown that with this thread.

[jrsweb]

By the way, forgot to mention that the Dillon Super Swage tool is a sweet thing. You mentioned it previously and I can highly recommend it. One of my first reloading tools I got - probably the best tool that I ever got.

[EricCartmann]

 
This is the most TV I have watched in ages....... and I got a lot of stuff done...

TV is #1 in my reloading set up.  Man makes reloading so much easier.  2 college hoops game, Glen Beck, and other Fox News Programs later... I accomplished a lot of stuff.

Yeah I will be getting a Dillon Super Swager soon.  It's really a must have and I have no idea why I have not picked it up yet. 

[EricCartmann]

Cartman,
  My chargemaster takes about 38-42 seconds to throw a 50gr charge of extruded powder from the 762x54r.  I dont know if it's the powder or not, but it didnt seem to matter what weight I chose with that stuff it still took the same time.

Can you try to throw a charge of some extruded powder like 4895 or something see if you get the same results.

Wow 40 seconds is a long time! 

The "10 second" quote was from 6mmMBR review.  After your post I tested it and fount that it is about 20-25 seconds with 42.3 gr of Varget.  I guess I never really notice before because it takes me longer to prime and seat the bullet so there is always powder ready by the time I am doing priming and seating the bullet.

[Jack-O]

Cartman,
  My chargemaster takes about 38-42 seconds to throw a 50gr charge of extruded powder from the 762x54r.  I dont know if it's the powder or not, but it didnt seem to matter what weight I chose with that stuff it still took the same time.

Can you try to throw a charge of some extruded powder like 4895 or something see if you get the same results.

Wow 40 seconds is a long time! 

The "10 second" quote was from 6mmMBR review.  After your post I tested it and fount that it is about 20-25 seconds with 42.3 gr of Varget.  I guess I never really notice before because it takes me longer to prime and seat the bullet so there is always powder ready by the time I am doing priming and seating the bullet.

I watched some videos on youtube, and it looks like the finer the powder the faster it meters out.  the stuff I was using was a really coarse grained extruded.  The weight of the charge does not seem to affect how fast it measures it out.

[EricCartmann]

Hornandy now has a powder dispenser and it is about $50 cheaper than the RCBS unit.  Also the Lyman 1200 DPS III claims to be the fastest dispenser.

Did some loads today and confirmed an average about 25 seconds with 42.3 gr of Varget.

[aziator]

Would those be the PriviPartizan tips?

I had some and they were longer but the ogive on my batch hasn't been an issue, as that is what is being seated. The ogive to the rear of the bullet affects case seating while the ogive to the rifling can affect accuracy and stability. Some 168g tips have a longer ogive than others so you'll need to test a few different seating combinations. I only move the tip out a little so any pressue increase is minimal and despite the load data showing this as the maximum I'm fairly sure there is a safety value built in as most handloading data rarely meets the velocity promises of factory ammo.

Work the load up. I fireform the brass and use a neck die to maximize brass life. Just keep an eye on your primers and watch for case issues. I find 45g works fine, at 46 I was having issues so I wound it back down. Within a few tenths grouping didn't suffer at all. I'm pretty sure I am not at max pressure as brass is lasting six to seven reloads at this point.

When it comes to accuracy I find that consistency between each round is more important than the actual velocity. Take your time loading and make sure even and consistent powder charges are dropped. AA2520 is the most consistent powder I have found both in terms of metering by volume and velocity.

There is an interesting article here , browse down, on OAL and pressure. http://www.barnesbullets.com/resources/newsletters/september-2007-barnes-bullet-n/

Went out last weekend and shot 60 rounds.  I was trying 5 different loads of 2 different powders (2520 and 4895).  My goal is to find the best powder that will drive a 168gr around 2650fps out of my 18" barrel.

The 4895 was crap for me.  I was very anal about uniformity in powder measuring and trickled onto my old beam scale to ensure I was spot on.  Best groups were around 42.2 and 42.4 with a 5 shot group measuring 1.5" (with 3 shots around an inch).  I went up to 42.8gr but the groups kept opening up.  From 41.8 to 42.8 the average velocity was from 2403 to 2475.  So for now, 4895 is out of the equation.

The AA 2520 was beautiful.  I started at 44.0gr and went to 45.0gr in .2gr increments.  Mickey called it, my best group was 45.0gr with a ragged 4 shot hole and one flyer.  Velocity was averaging around 2625 for that load.  I may try to go up a couple grains but I was pretty happy with the 45. 

I still have more powder to try, BL-C(2), Win 748, Ramshot TAC and maybe some H335.

[MickeyC]

I was trying 4895 in a .30-06  Pre-64 Winchester Mod 70, and just couldn't work out why I wasn't geting below 0.7" groups. Turns out the 4895 was giving me really uneven burn. Velocities had an extreme spread of over 80fps. Each rounds was measured in a DPSII so it's not a measureing issue. I'll be switching theis to 2520 also. 4895 for me at least, sucks.

Eric, for my 45g loads, I get about 2754 fps out of a 23" barrel, so your velocity is good.

H335 is really good also and meters well. My wife gets half inch groups all day long with her .223 Tikka T3, shooting 77g SMKs.

I can't talk about the others as I haven't used them. but I would be interested in the results you get.

[SIGFORALL]

I through in a couple of used dryer sheets with the 9mm brass I was cleaning and they sure did grab a lot of dirt from the media.

Thanks for the tip.

700 rounds ready to go!

[jrsweb]

I usually cut the fryer sheets the size of 9mm cleaning patches and add a few depending on how much brass and how dirty it is. What size do you guys use?

Did you try the Nufinish as well? I've had people mistake the reloads for factory rounds many times. I go through lots of brass and still on the same bottle for close to a year - you don't have to use a lot. Worth the money in my opinion as it not only looks great but helps when inspecting cases.

[EricCartmann]

I use 2 cap fulls of nufinish, seems to work better than one cap.  I also use 2 bounce dryer sheets.  When brass is really dirty is when you notice the bounce working on the media as the sheets get extra grimy.

[ny32182]

Just got done giving the RCBS Primer pocket swager a go for the first time...

-Positive:  The cases primed just fine coming off of it, and it is a lot easier than my cutter hand tool for sure.
-Negative:  The "case stipper"... doesn't strip cases.  I slammed the ram down pretty good a couple times, yet stuck on the nipple they sat... I had to get them off by wiggling them side to side by hand a few times.  I suspect lube is the only solution, but is there anything I'm missing?  Keeping this process lube-free would be outstanding.

[Fast Eddie]

I use 2 cap fulls of nufinish, seems to work better than one cap.  I also use 2 bounce dryer sheets.  When brass is really dirty is when you notice the bounce working on the media as the sheets get extra grimy.

My wife doesn't use Bounce because she says it leaves slime on the clothes (probably the "antistatic" feature), so I have to use new sheets instead of used, which are much more pungent.  My wife says the garage smells great now!  My shop smells pretty "dainty" though, and that coupled with the salvage sheet vinyl I bought to cover my reloading bench (which when I got it installed, I noticed had little rose clusters in every third square) kind of harshes the buzz of my man-space.

[EricCartmann]

Just got done giving the RCBS Primer pocket swager a go for the first time...

-Positive:  The cases primed just fine coming off of it, and it is a lot easier than my cutter hand tool for sure.
-Negative:  The "case stipper"... doesn't strip cases.  I slammed the ram down pretty good a couple times, yet stuck on the nipple they sat... I had to get them off by wiggling them side to side by hand a few times.  I suspect lube is the only solution, but is there anything I'm missing?  Keeping this process lube-free would be outstanding.

You are doing nothing wrong.  That's why the RCBS unit is slow, you have to wiggle each brass piece off the nipple.  Time to get a Dillon Super Swager.

[ny32182]

Cartmann, do you lube when using the RCBS, and how does the Dillon get around this?  Thanks,

[EricCartmann]

I don't purposely lube the nipple but I do go to swaging immediately after resizing.  So there is still a lot of lube on the cases.

The Dillon Swager gets around the brass being stuck in the nipple  because the Dillon nipple moves up and down while the brass stay put.  See here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHy-Tvg4xPo

[jrsweb]

The Dillon swager has a long enough handle that the force it creates makes it very easy to perform the operation. On the very rare occasion that the handle becomes tough to move when it is at the maximum inserted position, a quick tap (with your hand) immediately releases it. Very well designed. You can run hundreds though while watching a show easily.

[aziator]

The super swager is one of the greatest things ever invented.  I went TDY once for 3 months and stayed in a Holiday Inn the entire time.  I mounted the swager to the desk in the room and swaged brass every night.

[EricCartmann]

updated to include these tools here http://xcrforum.com/index.php/topic,7880.0.html

[JFComfort]

Great post Eric Cartman!

[tk]

Great post Eric Cartman!

SSSHHHH!!  Don't tell him that. Cartman's been banned from almost every gun forum in the civilized world.  If you say that kind of stuff, you'll make him realize that people like him here -- and I'm afraid his head will explode <g>

tk

[nortac]

In reference to the bounce dryer sheets in tumbler media, there is a allergy free version that's not totally free of scent, but very little scent. Works great.

[Fast Eddie]

In reference to the bounce dryer sheets in tumbler media, there is a allergy free version that's not totally free of scent, but very little scent. Works great.

Thanks Nortac...maybe it'll take some of the "dainty" out of the Man Cave.