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Author Topic: national sales tax vs. income tax?  (Read 1000 times)
hunter s gatherer
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« Reply #75 on: February 09, 2010, 20:46:04 »

Quote
Luddite??

Well I do wield hand tools better than most motorized ones. And as you can see I don't dress very smartly either. Grin
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piusmilitis
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« Reply #76 on: February 11, 2010, 19:08:20 »

So I've been thinking (mostly because of this thread) alot about taxes lately, and I changed my mind.  Every changed your mind?  Just happened to me.  Anyway...  I've come up with my own little tax plan for this country, tell me what you think.  Its part of the "Morehouse Plan to Fix the United States" which also includes me 28th amendment I posted here way back when (although since modified slightly).  SO here it is, the Morehouse Tax Plan:

First, as with the FairTax plan, we need an amendment to the Constitution.  This wont repeal the 16th amendment however.  Been thinking about it alot and at the time the 16th amendment sounded like a good idea.  It sounded like a good idea because they lied alot to get it passed, but the lies they told weren't bad ideas in practice me thinks, so heres the deal:

Amendment 28 (or 29 if my old 28 has already been approved =P )

Congress shall not Impose a tax on Income to exceed 5%.

Congress shall not impose unequal taxes based on race, age, creed, economic or civil statues. 

Congress shall not enforce any MANDATORY insurance (read disability or unemployment insurance).

Congress shall not tax personal investments as income.

Congress shall tax not merchandise made in the United States for sale in the United States at a rate higher than 30%

Congress shall tax no merchandise sold in the United States made outside the United States at a rate higher than 5% the domestic tax rate.

Congress shall not tax medical supplies or services.

(and something that would probably never make it into the amendment but that I believe firmly in)
Congress shall not tax the sale or position of fire arms, fire arm components, ammunition or ammunition components.  (reloading equipment, sadly, would still be taxed but hey, got to draw the line somewhere otherwise I could call a car a fire arm accessory because it drives my gun around)


No State shall Impose a tax on Income to exceed 5%.  (yes, I would limit state tax rights too, I'm that ebil)
No State  shall impose unequal taxes based on race, age, creed, economic or civil statues. 

No State  shall enforce any MANDATORY insurance (read disability or unemployment insurance).

No State  shall tax personal investments as income.

So anyway, the general idea here is this, income tax is still legal BUT as when the 16th amendment was ratified the people where told it would be at 1% and no higher then 7%, we are going to go ahead and cap it at 5.  Naturally the money grubbing bastards will set ti right to 6 percent for all time but, shrug, whatever.  Also, everyone pays taxes.  EVERYONE.  Sadly this means getting rid of the marage tax benefit but what the hell, I'll take one for the team if it means when I strike gold, win the lotto, or invent anti-gravity foosball I wont be taxed at 99.99%
As you can see, social security would be optional.  The government would naturally still owe everyone who already payed into the system the benefits they've earned, but here on out you get to pick if you pay in or not.  personally, I probably still would just encase I did something stupid and either A got hurt and couldn't work anymore or B got fired (neither would surprise me).

Then, congress would institute national sales taxes.  You see the are capped at 30% not the fairtax rate of 24%.  Because 24% is what they need now, and I believe in wiggle room.  Also notice Congress is allowed to tax merchandise made outside of the united States higher than domestic products.  This is not to say I think they should (even though in some cases I do) this is just to say I think they should maintain the ability to, but never more than 5% more, if they want to do more than that just use a damn tariff and piss everyone off.  Not that this wouldn't piss some people off anyway, but hey I don't like china all that much anyhoot.

I would also suggest yet another amendment (my own little constitutional convention here!)  That limits congress's spending in peace time.  Lets say congress can not hold outstanding debt that is in excess of
the previous years GDP.  What happens if they go over?  well we will all be F'd by then anyhow but I'm sure we can come up with something.  (not pretending my plan is perfect at all, I expect it to change as I think more and more and understand more.  Mostly I make this shit up while driving to/ coming home from school).

Oh and the last bit, All Good Sold To Territories not under the jurisdiction of the Federal Government and Within the United States shall be taxed at the Domestic tax rate.

Whats that mean you say?  Well that means that anything sold to those Indian reservations gets the same sales tax as everything else.  Shrug, I'm part native American so don't look at me like Hitler (although I guess Hitler had a Jewish grandmother didn't he.....  anyway).  All they need to do is build an oil refinery in on the Res, or a cigarette plant, and you can still buy cigarettes and gas on the res tax free.  Yay!  Otherwise, sorry, I'd tax it. 

Lets see I think I covered everything . . . . I think the details of the amendment need work, like the definition of a domestic product (51% of components made in the US, or of raw material from the US?  Assembled in the US?  Not sure)

Oh and I think there should be some prevision for people who want to pay voluntary taxes towards specific programs of there choosing.  Opera's such a big fan of welfare, let her pay for it if she wants, personally I'd probably throw the VA an extra few bucks on a good year.  They been aggravating as all hell some times but they've really done alot for me too.  And despite the occasional prick, alot of good people work there. 

I would also put a provision in that allows certain items to be taxed at a higher rate than others, but only by say 60 in the senate and 3/5ths of the house.  That way if people wanted to tax cigarettes or porn more let them, theres lots of free pron out there and I don't smoke so the hell with it.

Wont be taxing XCR's anymore though!  MWAHAHAHAHHA!


Anyway, that's the Morehouse Tax Plan, iteration 1.

Put that with my old amendment 28 and we might actually have a free country again.  Or it could cause a rift in the time space continuum, California could fall off, Cuba could take over the Easter seaboard, and Alaska might explode.  I don't know I'm an (aspiring) Engineer not a politician but it sounds like a good idea to me....

Me for Pres, 2020.

Oh and I will not be held responsible for any misspelling in this post.

I am responsible I just don't want to hear about it.
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TomAiello
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« Reply #77 on: February 11, 2010, 23:05:02 »

I would also suggest yet another amendment (my own little constitutional convention here!)  That limits congress's spending in peace time.  Lets say congress can not hold outstanding debt that is in excess of the previous years GDP.

100% of GDP is a lot.  I'd prefer an amendment that required a balanced budget, and a plan to retire all federal debt, with a future prohibition of debt during peacetime.
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piusmilitis
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« Reply #78 on: February 12, 2010, 11:15:33 »

Ya I hadn't thought of a good fraction of the GDP yet.  Now I'm thinking either a tenth of a fifth, which is still alot but that would be the max, you know, the "credit line" for the gov so to speak.  Of course right now we are at we are at about 90% of the GDP, so if this passed today it would be Congress would have to close the deficit immediately, and wouldn't be able to borrow anything for quite some time. 

I don't think saying that the Gov can never barrow money is practical, but they definitely need a frikin credit limit!
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TomAiello
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« Reply #79 on: February 12, 2010, 13:55:26 »

I don't think saying that the Gov can never barrow money is practical, but they definitely need a frikin credit limit!

The government should never borrow money under normal circumstances, or to meet operating expenses.

I can see allowing debt in an emergency (like a war) but I'd like to see a reserve fund held to take care of most natural disasters and "small" emergencies.  You could even invest it in something that would hold value, like Chinese government bonds.
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- Tom Aiello
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Fast Eddie
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« Reply #80 on: February 12, 2010, 14:02:46 »

I don't think saying that the Gov can never barrow money is practical, but they definitely need a frikin credit limit!
You could even invest it in something that would hold value, like Chinese government bonds.
Grin
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