I kind of regret buying the XCR...

[sierraglock]

Brand new rifle and had "broken it in" a little with 50 rounds or so and a few hundred dry fires.  I took it to a tactical class and all I had was problems... first trigger reset problem follwed by lots of FTE and double feeds.  Good thing I brought my LWRCi AR -- not a single problem (so the mags are OK).  There were a couple of other XCRs in the class and only one of them made it through the class without a problem.

I like the ergonomics of this rifle but honestly, I don't trust it.  My LWRCi worked out of the box, my Noveske worked out of the box, my Glocks worked out of the box.  I know many of you love your rifle and many have had no problems but given the number of others who have had problems and the "tuning" required to a new rifle, I am not sure this rifle is ready for prime time. 

Should I sell this rifle (although I don't feel that good pawning off a problem weapon to someone else)?  If not, how does one rebuild confidence in something that your life could depend on?

[jon1371usmc]

RobArms recommends 3-400 rnds on gas setting 4 for the initial break in. Do you know what setting you were on? Did you check the ejector and gas block screws were tight? Did you properly adjust the barrel bolt 250 in lbs? From the sound of it, Im guessing you have the older trigger. All that takes is a honing stone to the contact points on the trigger to smooth her out and correct the failure to resets.

Even if the rifle does have issues other than break in, you can rest assured Terra (employee at RobArms) will get you taken care of. It would probably help if you contact her directly via email or call the office. This should be your first step.

[jon1371usmc]

Oh and what kind of ammo/magazines were you using? I know you stated that they worked fine in your LWRCI.

Ill give you $750 to take that unreliable, piece of $h!# off your hands

[dont_tread_on_me]

  Not to mention BEFORE you go to any kind of shooting class,you should have function tested your rifle for reliability.A class is no place to find out your rifle isn't 100%.If it's not,the issues should be addressed before attending.As mentioned on other threads here,the problems you see posted are a small portion of XCR owners.You don't always hear how many run well.If you can't get it to run,as mentioned,Terra will make it right.Robinson customer support is Class A.

[EricCartmann]

I know how you feel man, a gun that does not work right out of the box can really get you down.  I had problems with the XCR myself, FTF, FTE, crappy trigger, ejector coming loose, and light primer strikes.  All of these issues have since been resolved and now I trust the gun 100%.

I too was about to give up on the XCR but then I came on this forum and with the help of Terra and others, I got my gun working the way it's suppose to.  I guess if it was not for Terra I might have sold my XCR too. 

For first 400 rounds I recommend shooting NATO ammo on gas setting 5 and also make sure it is well lubed.  The XCR seems to be tight from the get go so you will have to break it in a little to get everything moving smoothly.  All my FTE and FTF happened before the first 100 rounds because I ran her dry and did not break her in on the highest gas setting with hot ammo like was suggested by Robarms.

For the ejector, they now come loctited from the factory, but mine was not and it caused all kinds of misfeeds because of cases FTE.  Once I properly put it back in place with red loctite she has not given me problem since.

The crappy trigger is now replaced with a new trigger that is just as nice as my Giselle.  Good triggers are well worth the money, and even though the new trigger feels like a "match" trigger, Robarms claim it is a "combat" trigger, so at least you have some assurance it will be reliable through the years (unlike match triggers).

My LPS problems occurred after my Bill Sprinfield trigger job and even then only with Wolf ammo.  Not a big deal to some, but I shoot Wolf a lot so it bugged me.  The LPS problem disappeared once I got the new trigger.

Another thing I would recommend is if you ever take the barrel off is to make sure it goes back in properly seated.  I have heard problems from others, FTF, FTE, if the barrel was not properly seated.  Might also want to run the gas tube holes up as some claim it runs better that way.

Good luck and I hope you get her working.

[native]

Jack-O is out for the moment, but will return shortly 

[Mr. Riggs]

Brand new rifle and had "broken it in" a little with 50 rounds or so and a few hundred dry fires.  I took it to a tactical class and all I had was problems... first trigger reset problem follwed by lots of FTE and double feeds.  Good thing I brought my LWRCi AR -- not a single problem (so the mags are OK).  There were a couple of other XCRs in the class and only one of them made it through the class without a problem.

I like the ergonomics of this rifle but honestly, I don't trust it.  My LWRCi worked out of the box, my Noveske worked out of the box, my Glocks worked out of the box.  I know many of you love your rifle and many have had no problems but given the number of others who have had problems and the "tuning" required to a new rifle, I am not sure this rifle is ready for prime time. 

Should I sell this rifle (although I don't feel that good pawning off a problem weapon to someone else)?  If not, how does one rebuild confidence in something that your life could depend on?

Sorry to hear that you had all those problems.

It is very disappointing, for sure, when you are trying to learn skills and the rifle throws you off.

I too have had a shit load of problems even with  a properly "broken in" rifle.

It's my opinion that there seems to be some quality control issues with a percentage of rifles leaving the factory and if you have one of those it will take a period of time to iron out the various issues.

I've had my rifle five months and have had to send it back to the factory twice and I have had to replace my hammer spring twice and other parts were replace because of consequences of out-of-spec parts.

I don't mind really, I'm interested to get the gun going to see if it will finally work semi-reliably and can have the money in the gun without worrying too much about selling it. Is my trust in the rifle affected? Yes.

I also have a couple of back up guns that work out-of-the-box that I can rely on as you do.

There are going to be many people here trying to find fault in you, the "operator", but do not take it to heart.

If you want to ride out the problems and send the gun in and spend quite a lot of time trying to figure out the problem to get it working only to have, in the back of your mind, that the rifle might fail again so I better use may solid gun for serious defensive use and training you might consider selling it and moving on.

If, on the other hand, you want to ride out the problems and have the gun around for fun knowing that your going to have to baby it to get it to run for any period of time, then keep it knowing that.


Putting on my flame proof suit now!

[EricCartmann]

Mr Riggs, you have been very patient with your XCR.  I don't know if I would have been as patient as you 

[Mr. Riggs]

Mr Riggs, you have been very patient with your XCR.  I don't know if I would have been as patient as you 

Well, right now, I'd grab my Noveske for everything and anything important.

The XCR is going to take a while to get back in my good books.

But, I must say, Terra has been excellent and I look forward to getting my new barrel back to put it through the paces again.

[DSM]

Sucks dude, really does.  But, what I say, and before you do anything else, strip the rifle down and check for anything wrong (BMW=Broken, Missing, Worn) and then run 2-300rds of good quality ammo through it to see what shakes loose from the whole situation.  Maybe it "fixes" itself, or, you'll be able to paint a better picture of what's happening in there to help RobArm get your rig back up and running.  Try different mags too, as many as you have, I've seen on here that some XCR's don't like PMags.  Maybe it's other mags too?

[comfortzone]

Reading this makes me feel really lucky.  My gun is now broken in and I've not had one issue or problem with it.  It must have been checked out before shipping by Terra.  Mine has been fantastic and I have now purchased another that should arrive within the next few days.  My original gun is about 1 year old.  Is their something I should be checking or be concerned with on my original xcr?

[MickeyC]

Hey if you don't want it, let me know how much you want for it.

[SDDuc996]

Reading this gives me an idea.

When I get back stateside, I will offer my services of breaking in peoples rifles for them. For a small nominal fee of course (To cover the cost of ammo.)

Imagine, receiving a rifle that you don't have to laboriously break in! Hell, I'll even zero the irons for you!

Business cards are at the printing shop!

[sierraglock]

Guys, thanks for the replies.  For the background info:

- rifle cleaned and very well lubed
- gas setting at the max (i.e. 4)
- I know I didn't have the opfficial 400 "break-in" rounds so I was taking a chance, hence the back-up gun. (On the otherhand, why does a combat-oriented weapon need so many rounds to break-in?)
- Mags were a combo of Magpul and some quality metal mags with non-tilt followers.
- Ammo was all Federal 62 or 64 gr.  I might have had some Lake City in the pile.
- All screws were checked before, during and after.

I am sure I must have the old trigger.  It is noticeably "gritty", especially in comparison to my other rifles. 

Well I will probably work out the issues and then sell it.  No need to pass the frustration onto some one else.

Really, we customers should not be "beta" testers for something this critical.  There is a lot to like about the XCR but you guys with problem rifles are really patient with what the company has put out into the market place. 

[recon]

Seems that they are always updateing there parts. For the price of this rifle I would think it should be perfect. But it seems to still have issues. It's a fine platform but it still has some glitches.

[sierraglock]

Seems that they are always updateing there parts.

That's exactly the problem.  We are doing their R&D for them.  Customers are reporting the problems, and being responsive, they rev the parts.  (That's probably how I ended up with a new rifle that has the "old" trigger -- my rifle missed the rev cycle).  It's nice that their customer support is so supportive.  Personally I think it would be much better if we never had to deal with their customer support!  You guys with fully functional rifles are lucky. 

It seems simply that they haven't tested enough, or worse, they let it go out the door knowing that it isn't quite right.  Probably a bit of both: they don't have enough capital to do complete testing so they sell product a little too early because they need the revenue to continue funding operations.  This is not unique with a lot of companies, under-capitalized or otherwise. 

As consumers we may be willing to put up with a DVD player that malfunctions but I am not sure it should be acceptable for this kind of product.  And that's the key issue here, the intended purpose of the product.  Shouldn't all the "old" triggers have been recalled?  That would have been the right thing to do if you believe in your product.  Heck, my Honda gas motor got a recall for a faulty gas cap. 

I am not sure how long a business like this can continue.  Perhaps the owner has a lot of personal capital to continue to invest in operations and can make it to the other side before frustrated customers overwhelm new customers.  Even you guys with fully functional rifles should be vocal about quality.  At the end of the day, you would want this company to survive and the only way it will is by building high quality products.

OK, off of my soap box! 

[Cid1911]

I agree that the XCR should work out of the box. Mine did. Mine also had the old trigger, which worked fine but it apparently wasn't as crisp as the new one. From a function standpoint though, I couldn't fault it and I also had great accuracy for a 16" carbine of that type.

[EricCartmann]

Once you get it to work all will be forgotten.

[Underground]

Both of mine worked fine out of the box, with the old trigger.  The new one is nicer, but there's nothing wrong with the other.

If you're having problems just contact Terra, they'll certainly take care of you.

And if you want to sell it, I'm sure you'll find willing buyers.

[aziator]

I really can't say more than anyone else has except I wont sugar coat it.  The instructions are there for a reason.  This isn't the first gun gun I have purchased with a recommended break-in, High end 1911's usually require it (and they are hand fitted and should run like a clock out of the box).  I think breaking in a barrel on a long-gun is stupid but I see guys spending multiple range trips doing that without ever firing a group to see how it shoots.  If the manufacturer recommends it though, I would do it (assuming they provide detailed instructions such as the ones the come with the XCR).

I do feel for you taking the gun to a class and it not running.  What class were you attending that had so many other XCRs in it?  Most classes I have heard of usually only have 1 XCR as they just aren't that popular yet (unless John F ran the class in Utah).

If you want to sell it, problems and all, let me know.  I can probably find someone pretty quick that wants it.

[MickeyC]

The break-in is a pain in the ass but it is manageable. The only reason for it is to allow mating surfaces to align and have the coating removed. Yes this is more expensive as it involves both time and machining.

I don't agree with it either, but it's not that hard to live with. You can use the session to learn the controls and zero so it's not like the ammo is wasted.

None of my AR's, FS2000 or FALs needed break-in for the mechanical operation.

Once it is done properly however, the rifle will be 100% as long as you follow instructions.

[ny32182]

The "break in" for almost all my firearms involves taking them to the range and shooting a few hundred rounds, which I was going to do anyway, regardless of whether it was "broken in" previously.

The one exception is my SA58; DSA recommends a shoot/clean/shoot/clean cycle for the first few rounds; I was skeptical but did it since the factory recommended it.  That rifle also needed a polishing of the receiver rails before it would feed well.  That was a bit frustrating until I figured out what was going on, but once I did, and did what needed to be done, it has been 100% since, and now I love the rifle for what it is.  When I got my second DSA I knew what needed to be done from the start, did it, and had no issues.

It was way more of a pain in the ass than the XCR break in, which called for taking 300 rounds to the range an firing them on gas setting 4.  My pleasure.  I'd be happy to "break it in" more often. 

Evidently not 100% of XCR "break-ins" go as smoothly as mine did, but hopefully after you get the issues worked out you will like the rifle.  If not, like has been said, you shouldn't have a problem selling it.

The new triggers have been standard for a few months now, so your rifle has to be at least that old.  My rifle came before the new trigger, and I bought the parts relatively recently.  Based on some dry fire, I think it is a great upgrade in feel.

[Ashraam]

I was one of the guys who had a lot of problems with my XCR out of the box. It took several trips to the range, sending in my barrel, then sending in the entire rifle to finally get it running like it should.

My rifle was a nightmare of QC problems that honestly shouldn't have left the factory as it did. Out of spec gas block, ejection port not milled properly, chamber not polished properly. I was getting quite frustrated and I wasn't too far from where the OP is now. I was beginning to wonder if I had made a mistake.

However, Robinson Arms, especially Terra stood behind the product. I didn't even specifically contact them with my problems as I wasn't sure what I was experiencing could be directly related to a defect with the rifle or not. Terra contacted me through my range report posts and asked me to let her make things right. Eventually everything got ironed out and I've put nearly 1000 rounds through my XCR without a single problem since.

I can certainly sympathize with the OP, but I really don't believe there is a problem with the XCR platform. QC definitely needs to be reigned in, but the design itself is sound, in my opinion.

No offense meant, but you made a mistake bringing your XCR to a carbine class without following the break-in procedure. I understand that your other rifles worked fine out of the box but the XCR does have a clearly outlined procedure to follow right in your owners manual as well as reiterated numerous times on these forums. Maybe you could have identified and rectified the problems with your rifle before the class had you done so.

I guess my bottom line is, I'm extremely happy with my XCR and I definitely don't regret my purchase. Hell, if I had the money I'd own another one. I'd even buy yours, as is, because I know Robinson will make it right. Just as they will for you, if you let them.

[dont_tread_on_me]

My rifle was a nightmare of QC problems that honestly shouldn't have left the factory as it did. Out of spec gas block, ejection port not milled properly, chamber not polished properly. I was getting quite frustrated and I wasn't too far from where the OP is now. I was beginning to wonder if I had made a mistake.

  I agree,QC could use a boost.I also can understand buying a product that's not what you hoped for and expected,and the accompanied frustration.No excuses,but other companies do have their issues just like this as well.I'm also certain the platform is sound.

No offense meant, but you made a mistake bringing your XCR to a carbine class without following the break-in procedure. I understand that your other rifles worked fine out of the box but the XCR does have a clearly outlined procedure to follow right in your owners manual as well as reiterated numerous times on these forums. Maybe you could have identified and rectified the problems with your rifle before the class had you done so.

  That was the point I was trying to make in my other post exactly.NEVER take a new firearm of any kind to a class before you have confirmed reliability through several hundred rounds of live fire...period!
  Frankly I don't understand why break-in is a pain in the ass,Mickey you yourself have said and I quote

"At the end of the day you can't trust your life to anything unless you do a function check on all the parts".

In fact Terra uses it as here sig line now.It's great advice,in fact I don't know of a single one of you that have actually been in combat that would pick up a weapon previously untested and intentionally go to a gunfight.No one goes to a gunfight on purpose if they can help it,but you know what I mean.
 

As consumers we may be willing to put up with a DVD player that malfunctions but I am not sure it should be acceptable for this kind of product.  And that's the key issue here, the intended purpose of the product.  Shouldn't all the "old" triggers have been recalled?Shouldn't all the "old" triggers have been recalled?  That would have been the right thing to do if you believe in your product.  Heck, my Honda gas motor got a recall for a faulty gas cap. 

   The old triggers were not perfect but they worked and did not put any one in danger as a faulty gas cap possibly could.There are worse triggers out there than the old XCR trigger.My PTR-91 had a trigger you had to stand on to make it go bang and it's not a "cheap" rifle either.Plus you kind of contradicted yourself.Cars serve important roles as well,and can be a big safety risk if certain parts fail,and they cost a lot more than rifles,yet they are constantly recalled,so your "willing to accept a DVD player but not a rifle" really makes no sense.

Even you guys with fully functional rifles should be vocal about quality.

  I agree and even though through close to ten thousand rounds my rifle has never missed a beat (when using good magazines) I still say QC need to be top spec.Your right your reputation is based on bad reviews not good ones,so every bad one erases a hundred good ones.The point is give no one reason to complain because of problems you didn't catch.
.............................................................................................

   To the O.P.,what type of malfunctions were they,how frequent? What did the ejection pattern look like,if you were watching.this can tell you a lot about what's going on.

[EricCartmann]

Speaking FALs and reliability, have you checked out the FALfiles recently?  Lately there has been lots and lots of problems reported with DSA guns right out of the box.

What's my point?  Even the FAL, the most reliable rifle ever, and DSA, the best FAL builder in this country, are not immune to QC problems.